new welder - any tips?

[Sam C]

Right - I've been given a second hand welder in what looks like very good condition. A friend of a friend died, and this was in the garage - he was an engineer.

Anyway - I think it's an 'Arc welder' but I'm not sure. A good friend of mine can weld (sort of) and I've seen professionals doing it - but their welders are different to the one I've been given. Theirs involved a connection to compressed air - and the 'action end' was a bit of copper wire.

The one I've got is a power source, with an earth crocodile clip coming from it and on the 'action end' a short plug with a little clip in it, in which I assume I put one of the 'sparkler' looking things that came in varying size in a box with the whole thing. I've done a quick look on youtube and I think this is an 'Arc Welder'.

I have a mask, and I'll procure some gloves, and my plan was to just 'have a go' with some bits of metal and see how I get on. I don't plan to go anywhere near my car until I've practiced a lot. And even then I'm not too sure!

Before I do all this can anyone give me any tips or warn me off doing anything that could hurt me, or anyone else! Is this something that shouldn't be done without specialist supervision? The only major risk I'm aware of is to my eyes - but as I say I have a mask.  

Thanks all

Sam

[Scottie55]

You really need to read up on the subject of welding  8) Try the internet.

Don't use the sparkler thingy, it can be a bit blindy and messy on a poor wee cars wobbly thin body.

Mig or tig is your route, not arc unless working on thicker section metal.

Oh, and no compressed air needed, its CO2 or Argon gas.

[GreenV8Machine]

buy a decent mig welder

[Sam C]

oh. Bit disapointing.

So it's no use then?

[Steve Cureton]

Yes it is some use, just not for body work, but might be okay for chassis welding. They're really designed for much heavier usage such as angle iron etc.

[spunkymonkey]

Before writing it off, and especially as it was free, see how you get on with it.  Arc welding car bodywork is a lot harder than mig or tig but, despite all the advice all over t'internet, it can be done.  In fact, in the good old days when the realistic choice (mig was a LOT more expensive) was arc or oxy, arc was acknowledged as having quite a few advantages for bodywork compared to flames.  Our cars are all of an age where the metal was thick enough to arc with practice and a steady hand, it's only when you get onto modern tinfoil that it starts to get really tricky.  

This jacking point repair was done with arc because it was all I had available at the time, including fitting the replacement wing bottom.  Neatness wasn't a huge issue for the inside stuff as it was a case of need MOT, middle of April, and get it done between the rainstorms but there's nothing there that couldn't have been ground down to tidy if needed.  That was using 1mm steel which is essentially the same as the body panels on our cars.

Best advice is to read up on it, practice lots (starting with thicker stuff) and work your way down to see how thin you feel comfortable with.  For thinner stuff, short stitches are a lot easier than trying to run a long seam btw.  Depending on the welder (does it have removable welding leads or are they wired straight in?) you can also run carbon arc torches with an arc machine which are most excellently versatile bits of kit (think oxy type flame with no bottle or gas costs)


Edited cos I found a couple more arc repair photos:

[piman]

Hello Sam,

from your post you have little or no welding experience, so I think SP's advice is a bit too optimistic. I've been welding for a very long time. (Old enough to still be using gas welding equipment as that was the only practical equipment available for car bodies when I started)
I wouldn't consider using arc on anything thinner than 16 gauge, cars are 18/20 gauge normally.
Not the best sort of equipment to start to learn how to weld cars.

Alec

[spunkymonkey]

Agreed to a point, Alec.  On the other hand, it is possible and a lot depends on determination to succeed with it.  Mig and Tig are undoubtedly the easiest ways to get results and the least frustrating way to learn but the current tendency to write arc off as unuseable is just plain wrong.  The difference is that, with a half-decent Mig, you can get presentable results within a couple of hours of getting it home.  With arc you have to persevere. It's very easy to decide that "you can't do it" and throw in the towel before you finally get the knack of arcing thin sheet.  Too much instant gratification in the world nowadays ..... ;)

I've also been welding bits back onto cars for a long time now, starting with arc about 25 years ago, and have happily used it on everything from garden gates through 1970s Renault 14 tinfoil.  I also used oxy for several years (and loved it for its versatility) but can't justify bottle contracts anymore.  Remember that arc was once considered better than gas in many situations because of it's more local heat input and lack of distortion compared to a flame!  Add a carbon arc torches and you've got the best of both.

My real point was that, if the machine is there and free, then it doesn't hurt* to play with it and see what can be achieved. Don't expect miracles but you [/i]can[/i] join sheet (even on butt welds) and grind down to flat with a stick welder. If nothing else, anyone who gets to the point of being able to produce more weld than hole with an arc will find Mig (even gassless!) like drawing with a felt pen if they switch in future!

Joe



*well, no more than anything producing white hot metal can hurt ;)

[JRidout]

Hi Guys,

Can I point you at:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

I was in the similar position in that I was quoted an extreme amount for some body work welding, so I enrolled in a course at Richmond college, West London and bought a mig welder from machine Mart and now after numerous hits and misses am getting there.

Mig & practice is my sincere advice.

If by chance you are in/near Kent drop me a line and I'm happy for you to launch yourself at your pride and joy with my Mig welder.

Cheers

JR

[Richard B]

Like the others I started on cars a long time ago. I tried arc but it is a real skill to be able to do bodywork with an arc welder. I gave up and had to pay someone to finish the job for me with an expensive MIG.

I bought one of the early cheap SIP 100 MIG's when they first came out, I'm now on my third MIG a Nu-Tool 250. Worth doing a course if there is one somewhere near you. If not you can teach yourselve MIG welding, I did.

I would get rid of the arc and buy a S/H MIG.

ps. I find the disposable bottles are a waste of money.

[Sam C]

Thanks everyeon - this is all good advice.

I think I'm going to sell it and buy a different welder that's easier to use. Or just use my mate's!

I'm glad that I asked - you've all saved me a lot of frustration and distress I think!

Cheers

Sam