Confusion with Front Turn Lamps

[SpitNoir]

Greetings all. Hope you're all enjoying splendid top-down type weather.
Working on putting the '65 Mk 2 back together and having trouble identifying the correct front turn signal lamps.
The car came with gobs of lights in a box, including both late and early versions. The later type (larger diameter, with two long screws holding down the lens) is supposed to be the appropriate one, but the recesses formed into the front panel are way too small to fit even the steel housing directly. Much less the angled rubber base.
The early style (beehive lens) seems more of the proper size, but I just don't get how they attach.  Apparently you attach them with screws through the steel socket and rubber boot, but none of the holes in the plates line up with the existing holes in the rubber, and neither match the two (only) holes in the body!
Of course, the two screw holes are not sized for the later lamp housings either, so that's no help.

Any suggestions? Were there other styles perhaps?
If it makes any difference, this was an export model for the US, but is well past the (presumably correctly listed) cutoff for using the later lamps.

Thanks for any insight offered. I'm usually fairly adept at figuring out this type of thing. Kind of fun actually, but this time it's a puzzlement.

Paul

[CharlieB]

Photos please  :)

[SpitNoir]

Will do Charlie.
Thought about it in fact, before posting, but as it's rather dark hereabouts (12:53 in the am), I'll just get some later in the morning.
Yes, that's what flashes are for (low-tech night-vision?) but need to lay out some of the units to get pics. And that takes some actual thought.

Thanks for responding. Pics soon.

PaulB

[thescrapman]

Paul

If it was a UK car, it would have a white and an amber "beehive" light on each side, probably amber on teh outside.

They are held in place by metal clips slipped over the slots that radiate out from the circular hole for the main body of the lamp, screwed through teh lamp base and then through the rubber boot.

Cheers

Colin

[herald948]

Paul, your lamps should look as the ones in this photo from a US Mk2 Spitfire brochure:



A photo or two of what you have now would help. Worst case scenario is that, later tonight, I might be able to get you some closeup photos of how it all goes together!

[SpitNoir]

Thanks to both of you.
Colin, thanks for the detail about the clip. I've been pulling what hair I have left out, trying to figure out how the chrome trim ring and lens "snaps" into the rubber grommet/boot. Guess it doesn't after all!
Cheers herald948 for the pic too. I've been looking all over the site for a shot like that. Even the books I have are a bit vague on the orientation.

I was going to mount a large clear lens (with amber bulb) in that outer position, but it's a tight fit even there and did not seem appropriate with the parts I have. The inner position would not even come close to fitting the larger one. It's a tight fit even for the beehive lens. Now I see that I use both on this model. Clears that up.
Hmm, I wonder if I could have a UK model front clip on this one? Stranger things have happened. And it could have been in an accident at some point in it's life, and replacement parts were obtained where they could be.

Colin, any images here that you could link me to, showing the clips for the beehive lamp assembly? I don't think I have anything else related in my pile-o-parts, but I'll double check. Didn't see anything in the SpitBits catalog (local supplier) either. Time to look again.
And I do have those radiating slots in all four holes.

Here's a couple of images in case there is anything else to see. Couldn't get any closer for the moment. The sun was directly reflecting off of pretty much every surface, so I can get better ones later.

Thanks again gents. Appreciate all the help.

PaulB

[SpitNoir]

Oh, and it seems that, at some point in it's past, someone had installed a combination of Hella lamp assemblies in the inner recesses, and Petersen Manufacturing lamps (commercial long-haul lorry running light) in the outer position. That's the white base you see after the amber lens fell off or broke.

Paul

[herald948]

Well, good used lamps or even new lamps shouldn't be too difficult to find. Nor should the correct hardware to hold those lamps on. The apertures in the bonnet are fine. Again, I can try to take some pictures of various bits later today, unless someone else beats me to it!

[SpitNoir]

Thanks Andy.
I have plenty of lenses, bases, rubber boots and sockets to choose from, so I'm ok there. Just need the attaching hardware.
Looks like the larger lamps on the outside would be easy to mount, but they don't quite fit into the opening and I evidently don't have the proper base/insulators for those. The ones I do have (angled rubber grommets/base/thingies appear to me to be more like the reverse lights would use. But since I have 6 of them, I "assumed" that they may be for the front lamps too. However, they don't fit into the recesses in the metal.

I'll keep looking.

For the beehive lamps, I'll have to get a clip in my hand I guess, before I can figure out how the lens and chrome ring are retained into the rubber insulator. At first I thought their edges simply slipped into the visible slots in the rubber, but that would seem to be impossible without ripping the rubber, as they're just a tad (official unit of measurement) too large.

Thanks again. I'll see what other gems I can come up with too.

Paul

[thescrapman]

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/gt6mkibonnetassemby.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/earlygt6.html&category=bodyandfittings&xsl=diagram.xsl

Part 17 is the corner of the bonnet with the indicator and side light. Your 2 holes look same size, so may be a UK bonnet (or parts of)

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/gt6mkiandiiheadlampsandsidelamps.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/earlygt6.html&category=electricalequipment&xsl=diagram.xsl

shows the various UK light options

You can see the clips I mentioned, 22, 31 and 46 on each of teh types.

Cheers

Colin

[SpitNoir]

Perfect. Thanks for that Colin.
I've been meaning to go over to Canley's site since you all speak of them so much. I like especially that their images are larger so my tired old eyes can better see the parts. SpitBits has them listed too, but not as obviously or as clearly. Well, not that bad actually, it's just that their images are smaller and don't expand.

Thanks again. I'll go digging for some spire nut/clippy-doodles and see what I come up with.

Cheers.

PaulB

[drofgum]

Paul,
The lens on the beehive style light is indeed fitted to a groove in the rubber base, and retained by the chrome ring which fits into an even narrower groove in  the base. These are difficult to fit when the rubber base is new and flexible. If the base has gotten old, shrunk a bit, or lost some of the flexibility. they can be impossible to fit without tearing the rubber. A very smoothly rounded tool that won't cut the rubber and patience are the best things to bring to the job of fitting the lenses and rings.
                                                                                  Best of luck,
                                                                                  Paul

[junkuser]

A bit of lubricant helps. Dish washing detergent or similar.

[lordleonusa]

note that dish-washing detergent is full of SALT.

Prefer to use a waxoyl type product.

[junkuser]

Thanks for that info Leon.
Maybe spittle would be a readily available and safer alternative.
Just have to think of lemons.

[SpitNoir]

Plenty of different lubricants of differing properties oozing out of different pores here and there, so I should have something that works!
Didn't know about the salt either. I've used hand-soap to good effect on poly bushings, but since they don't react readily to things like salt and such, I probably would not have noticed any detrimental activity.
I'm wondering too, if in an application like this, it's really enough salt to deteriorate the rubber? Assuming it's not deteriorated enough already!

Though with the then-fully encapsulated beehive style lens, I probably won't use too much of anything that is going to leave residue inside where it would heat up with the bulb, and not have much in the way of venting to the outside. Not much apparent breathing, in the way of weep holes and the like, in this design.
Silicone spray lube perhaps? Seemingly very little residue.

Didn't get the chance to work on it this weekend, or note your replies until just now. Had a 91st birthday to cater yesterday! A good time was had by all (especially the birthday boy) and plenty of car enthusiasts were in attendance.
Fun times. Good memories abound.

Thanks all. Cheers on many levels.

Paul