Andy Borris Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Anyone got one I can borrow?Pretty sure mines dead, but I'd like to check it.The car was running (pretty well), now won't start, because of a lack of spark!I've got power to the coils and also the EDIS ECU, which means it should at least run on “limp home”, unless the coils are dead?Or could it be something else?Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Is it trying to even spark in limp home mode? Obviously if the MS is dodgy then it won't fire the injectors to make it actually run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 No spark at all.Car was running, but wouldn't re-start yesterday.I've got power to the coil pack and the EDIS ECU, PIP and SAW seem to be OK, not that it matters, even without a trigger signal it should run, unless the coils are dead?How do I check the injectors, aside from removing one (which is a bit of a faff)?Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Are you seeing an RPM signal in TunerStudio? That's probably the first thing to check.Everything else relies on that-Injectors you can check you are getting 12v - and they should click when they're firing (you don't hear it when it's running, need to get your ear near them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 jcarruthers wrote:Are you seeing an RPM signal in TunerStudio?Not yesterday when this first happened, but today after I checked the circuits (and found them all OK and live) I got a error mesage "tacho to MS mismatch" and "MS cannot read tacho"?Laptop died before I could investigate further! And the error mesages aren't saved anywhere, are they?But none of this should make a difference, it should still start on limp home?Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 No, because it won't fire any fuel unless it gets a crank signal- it needs the crank signal for both ignition and injection.There you go then— it was telling you what the issue was all along :)I would check your trigger wheel settings first.(and get a car > laptop power adapter :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Not likely to be coil pack. There are three separate coils in there - might loose 1, but not all three. My money would be on the crank sensor - either wiring, gap from sensor to trigger wheel (bracket moved a bit?) or less likely, sensor fault.Are you using the EDIS-6 box or firing the coils direct from MS?NickEDit: Check your earths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Had another look today and discovered that I'm getting a spark, it's barely alive though!Very weak, can just about be seen.Don't know if the injectors are clicking when I crank the engine, can't hear anything above the noise of the starter!The sensor is in it's correct spot and the toothed wheel hasn't moved, still timed to 6 teeth.The car was running quite well, engine was switched after a tuning run and has not re-started since. No settings were changed whilst the engine was off, it did cool down however. But cold starting hasn't been a problem before.I am however getting this error msg. The Engine speed dial goes “red” and shows Max revs as soon as the ignition is switched on, again this has not happened before the non start issue.The Engine speed dial stays the same (i.e. red) whislt the engine is cranked.Here is a link to a photo of the TunerStudio screen i get when I try to start the car.http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyborris/5742315571/Sorry about the quality, TunerStudio has locked up and I can't get a screen shot!Any ideas, this is worse then a non-start from scratch, the car was running well and I was enjoying it, and now I feel like a kid who's had his ice-cream snatched away!ThanksAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Andy,It's your trigger wheel settings as I said before- the number is totally out of range for the rev counter dial. It should be zero on start up and jump to 300 or so when cranking.Injection is really simple to troubleshoot if all the hardware is working - generally you can trust that it is - first thing to check is all your inputs are giving you the correct numbers. It's never going to work if it thinks your engine is cranking at 65,000rpm.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 JamesAm I looking in the right place "ignition options"-Trigger Angle Offset(Deg) which is set to zero, the cranking rpms are set to 300.I haven't adjusted these since installation and if they've changed, (still the same as when the car was running!) why did they change?Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Andy,If your laptop has been freezing or if you forgot to burn the setting could have got corrupted or not saved.I don't know what the settings are for the EDIS but it's in the manual online somewhere.You need to get that RPM down to zero before anything else.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Tried re-installing the original starting settings, which got the car started, but still got the above fault. Although I'm unsure if I installed this file correctly into the MS ECU.I used Tunerstudio and opened it as a new project with the saved settings in it and then burnt it to the MS?These are the settings that got the car running, so I'm assuming thier fine to re-use. Any ideas? Or should I re-fit the carbs and admit defeat?ThanksAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 You'll get there Andy dont worry.You've already baffled me but it all sounds very interesting and you sound like your getting somewhere even if its slowed down at the moment.This time next week I've a feeling you'll have sussed it out(even if its with a bit of advice from others).Your inspiring me as I'd love to do it to mine(love to get some mpg out of mine) and the fact that your getting there shows that it can all be learnt.Sorry dont take that as "if you can do it anyone can" thats certainly not what I mean.Good luck!Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 AndyWhat issue still remains?James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 jcarruthers wrote:AndyWhat issue still remains?JamesNothing changed when I re-burnt the orignal start up settings back into the MS, still showing 80,000 rpm and not starting!Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Alex wrote: "if you can do it anyone can" AlexOh no Alex, if I can do it, anyone can!At the moment, however, I'm failing miserably!I've also had to spend the money earmarked for new suspension on another car, 'cos the Sprite has now got problems.The Triumph is meant to be my daily driver, another week and I'll probably have to re-fit the carbs and distributor.I do want to go to the Nationals this year!Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Dont give up Andy please keep going.....although perhaps if I keep watching ebay a full kit will turn up for me.......ok Andy give up and chuck it on ebay ;) ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Sounds a bit alarming: Some thoughts,First off, check you have a solid 12v and a good earth to the ECU itself and also to the EDIS box, if used. The ECU and EDIS should be earthed to the same point.Can't remember which MS version you have MSI or MSII? Ver 2.2 or Ver 3.0? Are you using the EDIS box or is MS driving the coil direct?If you are using the EDIS box you should get a nice fat spark without any help from the MS ECU. You could try unplugging the ECU and seeing if that makes any difference to the spark.It might also be interesting to unplug the EDIS box and see if that makes any difference to the rpm signal. Or, if no EDIS box, just unplug the VR sensor. I think if either does make a difference then you need to try another one. If not, then I think the MS input might be fried. If you have a stimulator you can test the ECU.Note that if you are using the EDIS box then you shouldn't need to mess with VR sensor settings, just select EDIS. I'm not going to try and walk you through it as the layout varies according to the firmware you are using.Have you tried posting on the relevent MS forum? You must post full system details including firmware version to get a meaningful answer.I'll be more clued up in a couple of weeks as I'm going to have to learn all this again to get the PI going.....CheersNickEDIT: One other thing to try is to reflash the firmware and then reload your starting config. I'd try the above checks first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Yes I have good 12V and Earths and earthed to the same point.It's a MS 2 extra V3.0EDIS is stand alone and has been used without the MS ECU. Never got a great fat spark from it though, but enough to run the engine.EDIS is selected.I just can't understand why it's running fine and then 30 minutes later, it's dead without touching anything!Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Worth re-flashing the firmware, there's a new version too 3.1:http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=39013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Andy- the error you have coming up is to do with the tacho output settings.Find the Tacho output (mine is under Extended in TunerStudio) - set it to off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Defeated.Carbs and distributor going back.Or make me an offer.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Andy,Pity to give up now. You should post your question on herehttp://www.msextra.com/forums/index.php This is where the clever guys that wrote your code hang out...... I've done a bit of rummaging on there and there are some clues, but nothing exactly the same that I can see. But they all point to config error causing more than one function to be trying to use the same output. Why it worked before and not now I can't answer. Gremlins. Last time I connected a laptop to mine was just after Prescott - to put the rev limiter down to something sensible :o. Time before was before I went to Switzerland in 2009...... so the electronics aren't usually tempermental.I'll PM you my number so ring if you like..... don't use extra code or Tuner Studio though......CheersNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Andy,Did you change the tacho setting?A similar thing happened to mine when I upgraded to MS3 - it wouldn't start because of a conflict (I forget what it was) - one simple change and it all fired up perfectly.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Come on James go round and help him I'm sure he'll buy you an ice cream at the beach ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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