Wheel bearings

[Rosbif]

I would appreciate your thoughts on a problem I have at the moment with my 13/60.
The car hasn't been out over winter, engine run but not driven, I have recently taken the car on 3 or 4 short runs the last 2 showing up what I originally thought to be the front brake drivers side sticking. I thought this because after a few miles the car started to pull to one side, knowing the road I knew it wasn't the camber of the road. I stopped the car but couldn't see any indication of a problem. Returning home I noticed the tendancy to pull to one side came and went, again I thought brakes.

I took the car out again a few days later no pulling to one side during the 6 miles, did notice a slight burning smell so stopped and noticed a very light smoke haze from front wheel arch, popped the bonnet but couldn't see where it might be from. I did notice 'oil' stains on the inside rim of the wheel, again thought brakes, it could have been that some 'oil' had been thrown off the wheel onto something hot I wondered. Retuned home not noticing any pulling to one side or arrival didn't notice any fumes from around wheel arch.

Yesterday drove to my local village mechanic about 2 miles away, no symptoms. we put the car on the lift and removed the suspect wheel, no leaks from brakes - but- grease on the Inside of the hub cap and a little coming out of the hole in the bearing cap. The mechanic's comment was that excess grease had been squeezed out and that was the cause. He went round the car and tried turning each wheel in turn, both front wheels and one rear were relatively stiff the remaining rear turned much easier. Mechanic's comment was that the car hasn't been used enough but the bearing may possibly be on its way out. I Wonder if a seal may have gone?

I'm going to have a closer look and drive it , weather and time permitting, in the next couple of days to see if the problem continues. I'll check out prices & suppliers for bearings as well as I don't like having the doubt about reliability tapping away in my head, but don't want to change bearings if it is simply a little excess grease. Nothing has been done to bearings, brakes etc before hand.

Now your starter for 10 points: What are the likely causes. Your time starts now!

Many thanks for any & all comments(woot)

[piman]

Hello Rosbif,

you need to back off the brakes when doing a rotation check on the wheels if you suspect the bearing is faulty. Has any work been done recently on the front wheel bearings as they do need some free play, i.e. not adjusted up tight. If the brakes are sticking the wheel hubs can heat up so that the grease melts and runs out, so it is worth checking if there is enough grease, The grease cap should not be filled with grease, by the way.

Alec

[Casper]

Quoted Text

The mechanic's comment was that excess grease had been squeezed out and that was the cause.

Chicken egg egg chicken.

It might have caused the smoke but not the pulling, or the heat.  Anyway, what would "squeeze" it out ?

A quick strip of my rear brakes after winter is routine.  Check for easy movement of the pistons on the front (may have sorted itself out with use).

Take apart and re-grease front bearings and a couple of squirts for the rear bearings before buying new.

C.

[Rosbif]

piman: nothing has been done to front or rear wheels for at least 12 months, so maybe it is just that the front brake was sticking after winter. I'll take the car out and drive it fast and aim at a brick wall and then stamp on the brakes, maybe just do a few acceleratiopn and braking tests would be better.

Casper: points noted I do intend checking as you say.

Thanks to both of you(clap)

[Pete Lewis]

you need 0.002 to 0.08" end float on the brgs   thats a very light hand nip and back off one flat of the castle nut,

no grease in the hub or cap only in the races themselves .

there is only a felt grease seal ring that fits inside a cup in the hub and runs against the stub axle

you may have pressure build up,the master cyl is not recuperating properl and this keeps the brakes partialy applied,, if the wheels are stiff just crack a bleed nipple if that relases then M cyl is in trouble, or there is no free play on the M cyl pushrod.  

for rears dont let axles hang down  ,,  disconnect HB cable  lock adjusters fully, reconnect the cable adjusted to suit, back of adjuster .

Pete

[Nick Jones]

Most likely scenario IMO is that the brakes are sticking.  This will heat up the discs and hubs which will in turn tend to melt the grease in the hubs which may then escape.

I'd recommend removing the front wheels and brake pads and pushing the calliper pistons back before cleaning up the pad slides, refitting the pads and pumping the pistons back with the brake pedal.  The pistons should move without undue effort.  If they are very stiff then you should consider overhauling the callipers or fitting exchange reconditioned ones.

At the rear you'll also need to remove the drum and gently exercise the slave cylinder.  Again, if very stiff then it should be renewed.

Nick

[herald948]

I'm with Nick on this! Sticking/overheating brakes can generate enough heat to -- in some cases -- fry the wheel cylinder seals, render the brake lining material to little more than brittle bits of semi-metallic charcoal, and even set the wheel bearing grease afire. Not that this (cough) has ever happened to me (cough cough)....  

Oh, if you do find you need new wheel bearings, the only thing you need to remember is the word "Timken" (OE supplier, recommended in the factory workshop manual, readily available at least here in the US and not too expensive if you shop around)!

[Rosbif]

Thanks Peter, Nick and herald948.

It looks to me that a close inspection and partial dimantling of the front brakes is in order. Also as the car was pulling to one side I'll start there.

All I need now is some decent weather

[bxbodger]

It may be nothing more than the brake hose on the affected side breaking up inside, acting as a one way valve  and not fully permitting the brake to release properly. If the fluid cant move slightly up the hose it'll stick.

It costs nothing to check and should be the first thing you look at- hoses off, blow through them either way and see if there's a difference in resistance, swap them over side to side and see if the other side is then affected.

[Pete Lewis]

if thehoses are as old as the car then its a good time to replace them anyway,  braided give a better feel, but std rubber mix works fine as it has for years

this is a where does one stop, many ideas ,  deep pocket syndrome  but its not wise  to skimp on brakes   think youre in for a full strip look see project

when the suns out

if you need a bearing kit the TSSC shop sell the kit with the correct sized felt seals ,  

Pete

[Bitumen Boy]

Quoted from bxbodger

It may be nothing more than the brake hose on the affected side breaking up inside, acting as a one way valve  and not fully permitting the brake to release properly. If the fluid cant move slightly up the hose it'll stick.

It costs nothing to check and should be the first thing you look at- hoses off, blow through them either way and see if there's a difference in resistance, swap them over side to side and see if the other side is then affected.

If you hold brake hoses up straight to the light you should be able to see through them. Well worth doing even before fitting new ones as like most parts for our cars they aren't always the best quality these days, I've seen a few new ones that were only fit for the bin.

[Rosbif]

I hadn't thought of the possibility of the hose breaking up inside. I don't know the history of the hoses so they could be very old or only a couple of years old. The brakes were bled last spring without throwing up any problems, but last spring is last spring.

Thanks to bxbodger, Pete Lewis & Bitumen Boy for the tip. the list of things to check is getting longer, but at least the cure (whatever it is) should be ok financially

[herald948]

Quoted from bxbodger

It may be nothing more than the brake hose on the affected side breaking up inside, acting as a one way valve  and not fully permitting the brake to release properly. If the fluid cant move slightly up the hose it'll stick.

If I'd completed my thoughts in my post above, I'd have noted that the cause of the brake seizing was indeed an old, internally collapsed hose. It was so bad, in fact, that when all the intense heat literally blew the rubber hose out of the metal fitting on the wheel cylinder, NO FLUID came out, and the brake pedal still had some feel!

Frustrating, as those hoses couldn't have been more than 45 years old.... 😀

[Rosbif]

Quoted Text

Frustrating, as those hoses couldn't have been more than 45 years old....  

Yeh know what you mean, lothing lasts these days

[Pete Lewis]

I take pills to keep me hoses clear
   Wonder if they work on old  brakes !!!!!

pete

[Rosbif]

At last I can report that the problem is, at least for a while, solved.

The brakes and pistons needed a good clean up and rub down the the proverbial oily rag 😉 I replaced the retaining pins and seals simply because they looked pretty old and as new ones were very cheap it seamed silly not to.

I also bought hoses, front and back, as I have no idea of the age of the existing ones and fitted them, again on the logic that as the brakes are being dismantled get it all over with and the cost isn't worth worrying about, I can live with the heater not working but do on odd occasions need the brakes. 😲

Trying the tip of blowing through the old hoses I did find that some were blocked or partialy blocked.

Brake fluid completely changed and car road tested this morning. I even locked up a wheel or two in testing them. Wouldn't it be useful if someone could invent an automatic system that stopped wheels locking up . . .No I guess that is as far fetched as the idea of a man walking on the moon.

Next job? I noticed during my testing run that the offside indicators aren't working. Quick look Under the steering column and there it was, a bullet connector has come adrift. I assume it is for the indicators but you never know...

So thanks to everyone for their comments

[Nick Jones]

Quoted from Rosbif

At last I can report that the problem is, at least for a while, solved.

Brake fluid completely changed and car road tested this morning. I even locked up a wheel or two in testing them. Wouldn't it be useful if someone could invent an automatic system that stopped wheels locking up . . .No I guess that is as far fetched as the idea of a man walking on the moon.

Just buy cheap brake pads....... My Vitesse had anti-lock brakes for a number of years in the sense that I wasn't strong enough to put enough pressure on the brake pedal without using both feet and a big jolt of adrenalin.  Not nice.  Mintex 1144 pads solved it eventually after I'd mended everything that wasn't broken.

Myself, I prefer brakes that you can lock without undue effort as it makes it possible to cadence brake properly.

Nick