More engine swaps

[Smallfry]

I want to swap the 1500 in my Herald for something more interesting. In your view, would I be better off with..............

A. Triumph six pot, but moved back six inches.

Car remains all Triumph, but engine far too heavy for power output. Simple and easy to tune and transplant, but bearing reliabilty is an issue.

B. A Rover V8.

Again simplicity, potentially higher power output, light weight, good sound. Five speed gearbox.

C. Nice modern three litre V6 with four valves per cylinder and five speed.

Weight somewhere between the Rover and Triumph. Potentially the highest power of the three. Complex electronics tied in with immobilizer that may not be easy to overcome. High rev limit straight out of the box, and probably the most reliable.

What do you think ?

[Deleted User]

post removed on request of author

[100+]

I've often wondered if an old e30 shape BMW powerplant could be made to fit?  320i, or even a 325i?  It's asking a lot of a herald rear axle I know, (but then again, so is a V8/V6) and that's separate issue.  Could even pluck an old 320 motor on carbs if efi is too scary?
Time to get the tape measure out!
The chap I bought my engine and box from took them out of a mk3 GT6.  When I asked what he planned to put in it's place, he pulled back a tarpaulin to reveal an M3 engine with 6 speed sequential box!  He was an engineer though, and was completely re-designing the entire chassis and suspension.  I wonder how he got on...
Good luck whatever you do.

[Nick Jones]

Might be this one?  http://www.gt6.org.uk/
Doesn't seem to be going anywhere...... (another GT6 bites the dust for no good reason).

Toyota 4AGE (fit W series in line g/box) also available turbo/supercharged form.
Volkswagen TDI lump (Serious transmission issues with this one though - loads of torque!)

Nick

[Nick Moore]

As Cliftyhanger says, it depends on your driving style - and what you want to get out of the project. Do you want a 'period' engine as might have been fitted by a heroic owner in the sixties? Or something more modern but as unthinkable to a sixties mechanic as a nuclear turbine? And when you say 'power' do you mean huge gobs of torque in any gear at any speed, or a revvy motor with narrower powerband but explosive acceleration?

A tuned 6-pot keeps it all Triumph if you want. Moving the engine back helps with balance, although the countryside isn't perforated by holes where Vitesses and GT6s have understeered into the scenery so it's not compulsary. It's all been done before, which will make it easier to find advice but reduces the 'wow!' factor. Another period idea - a Daimler 2.5 V8! They bolt up to a Triumph gearbox I believe (and Daimler even used modified TR chassis for their SP250) so there's the start of a good argument. They were designed by motorcycle engineer Ted Turner with hemi heads, have lots of polished alloy and best of all, they sound absolutely beautiful, one of the best exhaust notes ever. Not a bass rumble, more a tenor. Guaranteed to impress.

The Rover V8's a good idea but not as simple as it sounds. They fit without major chassis-chopping, but to make a safe, usable and thrashable car you should think about upgrading the brakes and diff. The same with a modern high-revving multi-cam motor, although less low-down torque won't stress the diff so much.

Lastly, the chassis. A Mk2 is strong enough for a 2.5 six, but if you start putting Rover V8 levels of torque through it you should start looking at increasing rigidity to reduce twisting, and at the rear suspension design to control deflection under torque loading.

This sort of madness is to be encouraged. Whatever you decide to do, whether a quick swap or (as usually happens) a more involved and fascinating engineering exercise there will be lots of people here willing to offer advice, mostly contradictory. These things teach you a lot about the compromises and challenges manufacturers face, and may become a full-blown obsession. But it beats gardening!

[Smallfry]

Strangely enough Nick, I used to have one of those sitting in a shed, it went quite a few years ago now. The only downside of them is that they make a Triumph six look like a featherweight.............they are REALLY heavy. Superb quality though. As I understand it, the block and crank are made with chrome molybdenum steel !
I read somewhere that drag racers used to get nearly 1000 hp out of them.

I don't really mind difficulty, after all, thats what makes it interesting. Physically getting the engine in there and getting all the services coupled up is not really that hard, but I like it look like it was designed to be there. Its the electronics...........its not my bag at all !

[100+]

Nick, well found!  That's the one.  Hmmmm, I did think it might take him some considerable time to sort that one out.  Maybe he'll prove us all wrong one day.
His old engine's still going strong though...

[2litre-e]

that looked a very big project, and as he said he had just taken a pay cut i can see it taking a long while.i hated electrics (still do)when i started mine but after a full rewire, twice, and the image from the haynes manual burnt into my retinas ,they aren't too bad. i second the duratec.

[Smallfry]

Duratec WAY too expensive.

Do these all electronic engines still respond to normal tuning methods like porting and manifolds etc ? Is it possible to overcome any electronic emissions stuff like EGR and secondary air pumps etc ?

Would I be wrong in assuming that the management system would compensate for some mild tuning..............or would it need remapping/ chipping or whatever.

[Clive]

My zetec just runs a pair of dellorto's and an ignition box, which is soon to be changed for a megajolt. DS K series is the same.
I believe if you run carbs you can dump most of the gizmos. For ignition megajolt is cheap and appears quite straightforward. I will use the standard ford magnetic flywheel sensor and coilpack, an edis unit from a 90's ford, making a TPS (second time) and a bit of wiring. Total cost £100 ish.