Alternator conversion

[Camo]

I fancy converting to alternator, question is wether the uprated ones from canley are worth the extra money ? looking for normal use really nothing out of the ordinary
£100 for noraml alt conversion
£150 for Canley uprated

Same really for the starter, is the uprated one worth the extra cash ? I intend keeping this Car forever so don't mind spending on quality....
I only have a certain amount of cash for now though and it will be a rolling restoration / improvements along the way type thing  ;)

Stuart

[heraldcoupe]

I have upgraded a few of my cars to 15/16/17 ACR "standard" alternators. I've been pleased with the results, though for anything other than a car used for regular short journeys, I wouldn't even consider this upgrade as essential. The main advantage of the more modern alternators is the fact that they are cheap and plentiful in scrapyards!
I've alwasy been curious as to the need for the high-torque starter motors. The only Triumphs I've found difficult to start have been faulty in some respect. I would be inclined to put the money into fixing the fault which causes the slow starting, rather than finding a way around that fault. Or am I mising something?
Cheers,
Bill.

[bxbodger]

I'm not sure how a conversion can cost £50 or £100, let alone £150!!

I've got a couple of  Lucas ACR's sitting in the shed for if I do get round to doing a conversion- they fit the standard dynamo bracket with a bit of fiddling.

You can pick them up from breakers for around £10 - £15 and as they were once the standard issue  BL  alternator you can still easily get brushes, rectifiers, etc if needs be.

i think the Canleys, etc, kits are high output. fine on a modern motor stuffed with elastic-trickery like gas discharge lamps and the like, but not really neccessary on an elderly Triumph........ ::)

[colintheartist]

Hallo Camo,
Even though our Herald was in daily use, we'd find an old battery a pain on Harriet (sorry Superfamous).

As I am useless with 'lecs, I had an alternator put on and have not looked back since.

Why not use one unless you are looking for originality?

Cost - can't remember - too long ago - prob in region of 30-40 squids - max for the part and the associated task.

Same price as replacing that dead and gone nattery that will happen as a result of leaving the dynamo on!

Do it!

Cheers,

C.

[Deleted User]

If you are an originality freak, then you can get an alternator built into a generator body - about £400.  Then simply rewire the regulator box to hide the change from generator to alternator and you are the only one that knows the reality.

For any car with a generator, an alternator is a good upgrade, as it starts charging the battery at much lower engine revs, so so the battery is on charge even when the engine is idleing, unlike a generator, when the battery is only on charge when the engine is doing more than about 2000 rpm.  This is important in the winter or at night, or in the rain), when there is a large electrical load (lights, heater, wipers etc) that all take current and contribute to less charge goung to the battery to replenish the energy removed by starting the car - lots of short  journeys in slow traffic will quickly discharge the battery in a generator equiped car.

As for upgrading an alternator from an old one (low capacity) to a modern high capacity one should only be necessary if the car has lots of modern electrical goodies - high power stereo, satnav, extra lights, Fuel Injection, kenlowe fan etc.

And don't forget that alternators wear out - the regulator can fail, and the rectifier pack looses diodes one by one, reducing its ability to provide current - it all seems ok until you turn the lights etc on, and then it can't cope with the load and the battery discharges.

[Deleted User]

can you get an alternator fitted to a positive eath car without changing round to neg eath?

[Deleted User]

I've never seen a positive earth alternator, so probably not.

However I don't know if  the alternators built into a generator chassis are positive earth or negative earth.  Having gone to the [s]trouble[/s] expense to make the car look original, why spoil it with a polarity change that is visible.  You would need to contact the suppliers http://www.scparts.co.uk

[Steve Cureton]

I'm showing my age here but I drove cars with alternators for many years without once having a flat battery other than when they reached the end of their life, I can't see a good reason to change to an alternator unless the car has been loaded up with boy racer gadgets.

[Deleted User]

got dynomo and positive eath, like to keep positive eath as its quant, got halogen headlights and will have hidden sound system, so wasent sure if dynomo was up to job as have never had one before.

[Camo]

thanks for all the input, I will go for normal alternator conversion, next question is what do I need ?
I am sure I have the brackets in my garage, and an alternator too, so do I just swap the alt for the dynamo and its done or is there other things I should do ?
Stuart

[Richard B]

You need to change the wiring, if you are fitting a substantial alternator ie one producing more than 35 amps I would go for fitting a heavy duty cable from the Alternator to either the Starter solenoid or direct to the battery. The reason being the Dynamo produces 25 amp and the wiring by Triumph was rated for that load. Should you be fitting an alternator capable of 45 amps, 55 amps or more then the is danger of the cable over heating and potentially a fire (please excuse the pun).

If you go for keeping the wiring already on the car, then at the regulator bridge the two heavy cables one Brown from the battery (B terminal) and one Brown with Yellow from the dynamo (F terminal).

Then the wire from the ignition light needs to be connected to the small terminal on the alternator.

Hope that makes sense?

[Richard B]

I should add I did fit one of the uprated starter motors. That was beacuse I have 2.5 PI engine in a Spitfire and the 6-3-1 exhaust manifold would not let me fit the existing Lucas Pre-engaged starter. The old GT6 style starter became a service item, every 3000 miles a new starter. So I upgraded it using Canley Classics excellent DIY conversion kit.

[Clive]

Hang on a mo.... re wiring I think it should be ....... disregard the earth wire, it is no longer needed, join the F (field) cable to the WL (warning light) and then all the rest of the wires should be joined. Either use a junk regulator box, and solder bridging wires (good and thick) or use a connector. I used a bit of 15mm copper tube which I flattened a bit and cut lugs so I just popped the spade connectors on and the insulted it well.
At the alternator the thin field wire goes to the small connector, and the thick cable goes to the big one (either) I also ran an extra cable from the spare large connector to the starter solenoid, just to help the old wiring out a bit!
Cheers
Clive

[heraldcoupe]

Positive ground alternators wera available as an option on Heralds, these used an independant regulator pack rather than one attached to the alternator body. The same basic setup was briefly used on MGBs around 1968, though in that application it was negative ground. The parts may be available new from some MG specialists, but 15+ years ago when I was looking, the parts were frighteningly expensive.
The only point I can see in sticking with positive earth is for absolute originality. For a practical car, this is probably the first thing I would change.
Cheers,
Bill.

[Nick Jones]

Alternator conversions can be done very cheaply.  This picture below shows a large Bosch alternator fitted to my Vitesse.  75 A output.  Don't know what it came off as it was picked from a heap at a scrapyard.  Cost £ 7.50 and still working fine 5k later.  It was picked for its capacity (I have EFI and thus electric fuel pump, plus electric fan) and the fact that its various mounting brackets were in the right place.  It was a direct swap for the crappy lucas 17ACR previously fitted and that had been fitted by pinching the appropriate bracketry and spacers from an alternator equipped big saloon.

Note that I have fitted a substantial 'helper wire' as recommended by Richard B to avoid wiring meltdown.

I would regard an alternator as an essential upgrade to a daily driver, especially one used in winter and desirable on any car.  They work better and are more durable.  I would choose Bosch over Lucas for the same reasons.  Fiesta 1.1 with valencia/HCS engine have a Bosch alternator with the correct mounting shape.

Nick

[Richard B]

Sorry my bad. So long since I have converted a loom rather than rewire it.

If you are staying with the original wiring; connect the thick cable that went to the D (Dynamo) to the cables that went to B (Battery), then connect the cable that went to F (Field on Dynamo) to the cable that went to WL (Warning Light).

Richard ready to be shot down in flames again. :B

[Camo]

I found some parts today and fitted an alternator, very easy swap really but I think my charging problem is the voltage regulator, but thats a different story, see my new post...

Stuart

[Camo]

ok let me try and get this, I take the wire that goes to D on the reg box and connect tothe wire that would connect to B but without going through the reg box ?then connect the F wire to the WL wire without going through the reg box ?
is this right ?