Camshaft questions

[Greeks]

I love my lumpy Wade 444C cam and so does my two year old revhead son, but realistically the power curve is fun but impractical (it likes 4-5k) and the missus is fed up with people staring at BOB at traffic lights as the car grunts and shakes. And frankly the stink of unburnt fuel (from the car not the missus) is attrocious.

Seeing as she uses it as a daily driver and I don't get much chance, i'm potentially entertaining thoughts of swapping out the cam for something milder, but i'm (as usual) not sure where to start. So here's the questions:

Question 1
Is it possible or even 'easy' to remove and replace a cam through the nose of a Mk2 saloon bodyshell?

Question 2
Anyone got thoughts of a profile that would suit SUs and be milder yet still fun (i've read a TR5 profile doesn't work well with SUs and I don't have the coin for EFI as well)
... eg the Newman Phase 2 cam?

Question 3
Can you regrind an already reground cam?

Question 4
Are there other ways of achieving the same result which would definitely work and not cost loads more?

Question 4
Where does one find a moon on a stick these days?

[andy thompson]

Fit an early PI cam simples.... Might be able to find you one if you want - much cheapness I would think from Markich. Cam will come through the grill easily - you might need to loosen an engine mount - but you'd be used to that. I forget which block you have but I have HEAPS of NOS gasket sets especially for the non- recessed block. Needles for the PI cam are easy to estimate - lots have done this conversion - BCM is a good starting point.

Cam swap can be done in a weekend easily if you get stuck in.

[Radders]

Sorry, slight thread drift,

Andy,

You'd be the man to know, can a cam change be done on a Mk1 without removing the engine? Or does the nose cone prevent this?

[Greeks]

Hmmm... Well i got the Cp block.

[mikew]

391 wrote:

Sorry, slight thread drift,

Andy,

You'd be the man to know, can a cam change be done on a Mk1 without removing the engine? Or does the nose cone prevent this?

It can be done, but you need to cut a round camshaft sized hole in the nose cone  :)

[andy thompson]

http://triumphwestoz.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/new-bits-for-white-pi-part-2-cam-change.html

http://triumphwestoz.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/cam-failure-and-remedy.html

;) ;) ;D ;D ;D

[andy thompson]

Greeks wrote:

Hmmm... Well i got the Cp block.

Well I have about six headgaskets for them - how does free + postage sound?

I'll see if I can rustle up a PI cam - I have plenty of decent new followers - swap a cam change kit for the 444C if it isn't shagged out

[TimW]

I had a tr5 cam with hs6 su's.  135bhp and 150ftlbs torque. standard engine other than a decked block.  ran very well i thought until i fitted EFI.  ran much better then ;) ;)

[Greeks]

lagerzok wrote:

Well I have about six headgaskets for them - how does free + postage sound?

I'll see if I can rustle up a PI cam - I have plenty of decent new followers - swap a cam change kit for the 444C if it isn't shagged out

Well it's a CR engine actually.

The deal doesn't sound too bad at all. So kit would be cam, followers and h/gasket?

Can't see the 444C cam should be too bad as it's only done ~40k. Still haven't needed to top up the oil between services.

Will make some enquiries about getting a local classic car place to swap out the cam as I'm time poor these days. Might take a little while to get to it.

[Greeks]

339 wrote:

I had a tr5 cam with hs6 su's.  135bhp and 150ftlbs torque. standard engine other than a decked block.  ran very well i thought until i fitted EFI.  ran much better then ;) ;)

I love the idea of getting EFI sorted ... i'm years' away at current pace though  :-/

[andy thompson]

TR5 cam will potentially be as stinky as the Wade - similar overlap! For power and economy early PI is a good compromise

[Nick Jones]

Agree, 132 PI cam / Mk2 GT6 / Mk2 Vit is a good allrounder and capable of decent power too.  My Vitesse has a torquey 120bhp from 2L on injection and the PI 146bhp from 2.5 on injection.  Pull from 1000 rpm too.....

Nick

[Greeks]

Sounds good Nick ... just need your EFI system to go with it!

[Nick Jones]

Could try a decent mappable ignition system as a way to tame your existing cam a bit and improve it's low-end attitude.  I found the ignition side of things made as big a difference as the injection and if I had to choose just one I'd take the ignition.

Nick

[Greeks]

Thanks Nick.

I'm umming and ahhing about it all at the moment, trying to decide between cam-swap, PI, EFI (possibly TBI). Any which way it would be best to modify the ignition (dissy was tweaked for the current cam and carb set up).

Dropping a 1-2-3 in there for a starter is tempting as it would be quickest. Not as kosher as megasquirt maybe.

... No real issue pulling from low revs at the moment though, can drive in fourth at 1200 rpm no problem (no fun either).

[Nick Jones]

Nothing wrong with a 123 Tune (the fully mappable one) - except the price tag (Oz $ still quite robust though).

You will often find that engines with big cams want lots of advance at low rpm because they are not very good at trapping the charge down there, so charge density is low and burns slowly.  This is difficult to arrange with mechanical dizzies as you may even want a curve that goes "backwards"  ie more advance at 1000rpm than at 1500 or even 2000.

However, if the car pulls ok at low rpm it might be more of a case of being set really rich down there in order to get it to go properly further up.....

Mate has a Newman 260 cam just fitted in his TR6 (mild timing but fair amount of lift) and that has got huge grunt low down and midrange (when it works properly).  That is Megasquirted and unfortunately that is the reason for the "when it works properly".  We've slaughtered a whole bunch of gremlins but a few remain......  Was a federal engine before and a bit lame, but now mapping is a bit hairy as he keeps getting attacks of the "red mist".

Nick

[Greeks]

Thanks Nick, that figures. The guy who built the engine tuned the mechanical dissy on a steep hill. Ended up with 13 advance at idle. He made some internal mods apparently but i'm not sure what.

However, i've never noticed pre-ignition, but I reckon it should pick up sooner as the revs increase, so I assumed it may not have enough advance - maybe needed lighter springs. Anyway at least I could find out for sure if I could put a mappable dissy in and see what's happening.

I need to do some research into how to tune them though. I assume the manifold pressure comes off the standard vaccum advance tube, but want to know how I will know what to change (if that makes sense) before I buy one.