Greeks Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 A bit like Jason's thread about technical things you're unsure about asking ...Is it possible to get the sump off and replace an oil pump in situ? :BAlso, are there any improvements on standard pumps?I'm concerned my oil pressure is a bit lower than ideal: starts out at 80psi at start up but is dropping to ~15psi at hot idle, ~37-40 @ 2,000rpm. Not what i'd want for a recon. engine. According to the engine builder the tolerances were correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I've never done it, but I would say you can. In order to drop the sump low enough to clear the oil pump pickup you may have to drop the steering crossmember. If you disconnect the steering shaft, then undo the 8 bolts holding the x-member to the body then let it spring down on the suspension, you should get a good 4-5 inches. If you have PS, you may have to disconnect the hoses.My engine's done around 14k, I'm getting 50psi hot running, 25psi hot tickover, even after the constant thrashing of the RBRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDeTriomphe Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 It is definitely possible - I once had the pick-up pipe fall off inside the sump and had to fix that in situ. That meant I had to top up with rather more oil than recommended until it was fixed - and even then the oil pressure dropped alarmingly low around corners :(As Mike says, it means slackening off the suspension cross member fist to give enough room to take the sump out - but I don't think I needed to undo the bolts all the way.Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 You can "blueprint" an oil pump by reducing the end float (apparently) I'm sure I've got a book with instructions somewhere :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Witor sells blueprinted ones. The std new ones are obviously pants........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 Great - thanks guys.Indeed I saw Witor's ones ... will give him a call.Incidentally Clive the guy who built my engine doesn't trust the new ones at all after an experience where a new pump didn't work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I think I'm right in saying that the earlier pumps have cast iron bodies and the later ones aluminium. The trouble with aluminium is that it grows more than the steel gears inside when the engine warms up and increases the end-float of gears-to-end plate. If this end-float is a bit big to begin with (and some of them are) you get rather too much oil leaking around the ends and thus lower oil pressure.'Blueprinting' should involve selecting gears that have the correct running clearances between each other and between the gears and pump body including endfloat. You can only do this if you have a decent slection of parts to play with. However, it is usually the end float that is the biggest issue and this can be dealt with at home using a steel rule and feeler gauges to measure the end float of the two gears and a sheet of plate glass and some grinding past (or sheet of wet or dry paper) to lap down the pump body (and possibly one of the gears) to reduce the end float. If there are any scoring marks in the pump end plate the same technique can also be used to make it smooth and flat again. You could just buy another new pump but it could be worse.... Obviously you need to give everything a damn good wash to get rid of any abrasive remnants before re-assembling.I have done this once, with great success on a 1500 engine. The pump body was aluminium.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Sounds interesting ... and, importantly, cheap :)I might get my spare one sent down and have a butcher's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 My very kind father in law has pulled a pump out of my spare engine in his shed and given it a good clean up and check over. It's got an aluminium end plate so I suppose it's an older one. Tolerances seem to be good according to his measurements, so once it's posted down to me I'll probably just swap over and see if it improves things.I've never pulled a sump off before ... Is it standard practice to fit a new sump gasket afterwards or will I get away with reusing the old one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 :B I meant it has an ali plate therefore is a newer one :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Greeks,What oil do you use and have you got a crossdrilled crank ie Mk1 PI?? Oil pressure sounds OK ish.... doubt its the oil pump... try a thicker oil... I use 25W/60 in my old 2500's (not the white thing)...When I bought my first ozzy PI in Sydney from Dave Clark he swore by straight Valvoline 50 grade when doing long country trips!!Plan B is disconnect the guage...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Greeks wrote:I've never pulled a sump off before ... Is it standard practice to fit a new sump gasket afterwards or will I get away with reusing the old one?Unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Mk1 Pi engine ... but not the long crank, so I'm not sure. Valvoline 20/50. Engine builder wouldn't offer warranty with anything else.If I disconnect the gauge i'd have oil all over the car ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxijack Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 You will be very foolish if you re-use the gasket, for a few shillings it is not worth the risk of undoing all the effort you will put into the job!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 lagerzok wrote:When I bought my first ozzy PI in Sydney from Dave Clark he swore by straight Valvoline 50 grade when doing long country trips!!As in DC5? 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 taxijack wrote:You will be very foolish if you re-use the gasket, for a few shillings it is not worth the risk of undoing all the effort you will put into the job!!It's not the cost, it's the hassle of ordering it and waiting for it to arrive and paying the postage to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 you will prob find that the old one will tear as the sump comes off anyway. Even if not, I'd still use new as part of the seal relies on compressing the gasket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 So order a few, postage and hassle will be the same.And just in case you are unaware....the bolts that go into the ali housings front and back strip their threads VERY easily. Well the housings, not the bolts. That would be too easily fixed.Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Greeks wrote:will I get away with reusing the old one?Most unlikely and probably false economy. As cornflake packets are too small to cut a sump gasket out of you will just have to buy a new one. :PNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 ... oh, I've still got some packing boxes from our last house move ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Job done and so far it seems to have been worthwhile. Test drive was showing much higher tickover pressure although I need to go for a longer trip to be certain the oil's fully heated.Photo shows the old one on the right with scoring on the end next to the replacement that went in ... Sump was spotless as I'd have hoped, and gasket was still complete so I didn't bother changing it :B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I have been using Valvoline VR1 20W/50 oil in both cars after strong recommendation from Dale B at Moordales. Superb oil, does'nt mind a good thrash!Graham,How did the sump bolts into the ali. stretcher block go, those and the timing cover jobbies that screw into that block are a nightmare. Glad that BOB is back on the road, certainly is proving to be a fine motor car.Andy,Do you Aussie chaps run oil coolers on your cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Probably should but never bothered... the roads are very flat and the speeds aren't high... maybe cruise at 80mph max... I do use synthetic oil tho' 5W / 50 Mobil 1 generally (used to use 10W 60 castrolThat oilpump looked a bit sad for so few miles :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedmonkey Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 how about this for a theroy? it ate some swarf/metal particals left over from the engiine re-build?knocker- how many running in miles did you do? an what sort of running oil did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeks Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 Tim - no problem at all with the bolts, I noticed the different lengths ;)The oil pump wasn't a new one ... as the engine builder has had problems with them. He reckoned all the tolerances were correct - presumably didn't notice the scoring? :-/ >:(No sign of any swarf in the sump or on the magnetic plug.F-in-law spent a bit of time checking over the other pump and says he removed a fair amount of scoring from the end plate. First impressions are that he did a good job :) Now he wants to make me a moulded sump guard from plastics... could be interesting.Never used running in oil, all Valvoline 20/50. 1,000km run in below 3,000rpm then oil and filter change, 4,000km below 4,000rpm, oil change.Driving up to NSW for Xmas so should get a few thousand more k's :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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