rog1300 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 My Mk4 has a 20 spline input shaft from J type overdrive g'box. I ordered a mk4 clutch - but this had 10 splines in clutch plate. I sent it back and was sent a 1500 clutch with 20 splines. That's lovely but it's too big and the clutch cover location holes don't match the flywheel. Can't see any links to a 20 spline 6.5" clutch plate - apart from one reference stating "you can't get these anymore". Erm... any ideas? Top part is current - below one in image is new 1500 clutch. There is an offset of the securing pin hole to flywheel - it's not centered between the securing bolts. Cheers peeps! Rog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 They are like elephants' eggs but you can still get them, at a price. The same clutch is fitted to the 1300 Dolomite and some Marinas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 6, 2023 Author Share Posted August 6, 2023 oh dear expensive! how about a flywheel change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 They do them here but yes expensive so you could look at getting the exisiting one refurbished. Saying that it looks in pretty good condition so whats the problem? Clutch Plate Only - GCP244 | Rimmer Bros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 15 hours ago, rog1300 said: oh dear expensive! how about a flywheel change? There are issues with bolt size, position, etc. etc. I looked and thought of it for my 1300 Dolomite because I have a large centre lathe to do it but those in the know put me off because of potential problems. I found a couple of driven plates on fleebay marked for a 1300 Dolomite but when they arrived the boxes were labelled for a Marina (can't remember which model), part number GCP 188, and they fit because shortly afterwards the driven plate exploded so I fit one to the car and a Herald clutch cover. The car drove with no issues and now lives with someone else on the south coast. The plate that exploded was a re-con plate! If your clutch cover is shot then use a Herald cover. Again I fitted one to a short MkIV block with no issues, the car has since driven 40k plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 13 hours ago, glang said: They do them here but yes expensive so you could look at getting the exisiting one refurbished. Saying that it looks in pretty good condition so whats the problem? Clutch Plate Only - GCP244 | Rimmer Bros The plate seems good actually - but as the rear crank oil seal went it has suffered some oil contamination. The cover unit is the bit giving me a sourcing problem at mo.. although it seems ebay may be the next place to search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, standardthread said: There are issues with bolt size, position, etc. etc. I looked and thought of it for my 1300 Dolomite because I have a large centre lathe to do it but those in the know put me off because of potential problems. I found a couple of driven plates on fleebay marked for a 1300 Dolomite but when they arrived the boxes were labelled for a Marina (can't remember which model), part number GCP 188, and they fit because shortly afterwards the driven plate exploded so I fit one to the car and a Herald clutch cover. The car drove with no issues and now lives with someone else on the south coast. The plate that exploded was a re-con plate! If your clutch cover is shot then use a Herald cover. Again I fitted one to a short MkIV block with no issues, the car has since driven 40k plus. Herald cover - I shall make enquiries. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 ok - so: keeping my existing clutch plate as it is pretty clean and is not really worn, but changing the cover plate via the helpful souls at Canley classics for a GCC197. Fingers crossed all should be good soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Depends if youre prepared to take the risk of clutch slip due to the oil contamination? Saying that any oil from the crank seal really does have a difficult route for getting onto the friction plate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky_spit Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) This might be complete nonsense, but in the foggy depths of my brain lurks the thought that a late Morris Minor van plate will fit ok, and that I used one in an early Mk3 Spitfire. I might be wrong of course, but worth checking with someone who knows for sure. I also think that it is the same plate as used in the early BT Marina vans, as the one given to me was a mechanic who worked in a BT garage workshop. Edited August 7, 2023 by sparky_spit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 5 hours ago, rog1300 said: ok - so: keeping my existing clutch plate as it is pretty clean and is not really worn, but changing the cover plate via the helpful souls at Canley classics for a GCC197. Fingers crossed all should be good soon! Any oil contamination on the driven plate wash it with carbon tetrachloride (if you can get it) or another volatile solvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, standardthread said: Any oil contamination on the driven plate wash it with carbon tetrachloride (if you can get it) or another volatile solvent. Brake cleaner is the stuff these days. Carbon tet not been (Easily) available for about 20 years or more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Good price but just need the cover now as Canley dont have it in stock. Theres this on ebay or complete clutch kits for 80 pounds delivered and then sell on the unwanted friction plate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 On 07/08/2023 at 16:40, standardthread said: Any oil contamination on the driven plate wash it with carbon tetrachloride (if you can get it) or another volatile solvent. On 07/08/2023 at 17:09, Clive said: Brake cleaner is the stuff these days. Carbon tet not been (Easily) available for about 20 years or more! yep - given it a good wash down with brake cleaner. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog1300 Posted August 8, 2023 Author Share Posted August 8, 2023 Well the lovely Clare at Canley has sent me the new clutch plate'll (friction disk) but alas! The clutch plate is 7/8ths of friction material and cover unit has 1 and 1/8th inch of 'disc'. Both are 6.5" across. So the inner diameter of the cover plate is less than the inner part of the friction disc - so it can't fit flush to the surface of the plate's disc. I'll have to check the Marina part and that Laycock part now.. hope that inner disc isn't too 'wide' ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Your old friction plate looks unusual in that its got rivets just inside the inner diameter of the friction material so making it unable to lay flat against the new pressure plate. Normally having a difference in these diameters wouldnt matter as long as all the friction material is covered by the pressure plate so perhaps you need a new friction plate as well. This eBay one at 26 pounds delivered for a Marina 1300 should be useable with the Canleys pressure plate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 23 minutes ago, glang said: Your old friction plate looks unusual in that its got rivets just inside the inner diameter of the friction material so making it unable to lay flat against the new pressure plate. Normally having a difference in these diameters wouldnt matter as long as all the friction material is covered by the pressure plate so perhaps you need a new friction plate as well. Note of caution. The pressure plate that exploded on me was, along with the cover plate a refirb. fitted by the previous owner. When I fitted the new driven plate to the old cover plate the clutch wouldn't engage, possibly because of the reason glang has given over rivets. That cover plate is now scrap. Differences in diameter, to give the garage mechanic some leeway to source driven plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingFrog Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, glang said: Your old friction plate looks unusual in that its got rivets just inside the inner diameter of the friction material so making it unable to lay flat against the new pressure plate. Normally having a difference in these diameters wouldnt matter as long as all the friction material is covered by the pressure plate so perhaps you need a new friction plate as well. This eBay one at 26 pounds delivered for a Marina 1300 should be useable with the Canleys pressure plate.... This plate looks like a Laycock design one. The plate that Rog removed with the blue springs is the type I've seen others sell and fitted to my car with a similar gearbox conversion, these were made by Borg & Beck (B&B). At some point B&B and Laycock both became part of AP, but I don't know when that was. The reason I bring this up, if you start mixing and matching parts, you can have other problems (besides physically not fitting). In the past I mixed a Laycock friction plate (but a standard 10-spline one) with a B&B clutch cover (not reproduction) and ended up with a clutch that wouldn't release. Presumably because the cover was set for a different height friction plate. However, I'm not sure what the best route forward is for you, but mixing reproduction clutch covers with old asbestos friction plates is not the path I would pick. Personally, I would either buy a NOS Laycock clutch cover and friction plate (probably the hardest combination to find), or easier find a NOS B&B clutch cover and fit the old friction plate. Edited August 9, 2023 by JumpingFrog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Dawes Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I found this on eBay It is 165mm as I’ve already asked the seller, it is a competition/rally clutch but it will fit our hard to find drivetrain parts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Wendy Dawes said: I found this on eBay It is 165mm as I’ve already asked the seller, it is a competition/rally clutch but it will fit our hard to find drivetrain parts Looks like a refurbished unit given the wear/recess on the ends of the fingers on the cover plate? Given the price and the rarity of 1300 Dolomite clutches is someone taking advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Dawes Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I doubt it, , it is marketed as a high performance rally clutch so it will appear different to a normal clutch. anyway no one has to buy anything they’re not sure about it’s just an option to consider. we all try to help each other when possible, it’s the right thing to do as our cars become harder to get parts for. It’s Not a compulsory purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Wendy Dawes said: I doubt it, , it is marketed as a high performance rally clutch so it will appear different to a normal clutch. anyway no one has to buy anything they’re not sure about it’s just an option to consider. we all try to help each other when possible, it’s the right thing to do as our cars become harder to get parts for. It’s Not a compulsory purchase Hi Wendy. I wasn't having a go at you, I was just going by the look of the cover plate and we are all told to beware of sharks. Everyone does their best to help if they can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 This is why I suspect the covers could be refurbished. On the left is a new cover, the cover on the right has a ridge running around the ends of the fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 This B+B (OK, B+B box) also has the concentric marks on the fingers. I wonder if the marks are from a QA check? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Dawes Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Thanks Clive, I also suppose that most eBay listings show a generic photo, which simply is a representation of the item being offered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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