jonnyk5614 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Guys, have just been eurotripping and thought I'd tell you about petrol and any other questions, feel free to ask. I went to France, Monaco, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Luxembourg and Belgium. 3800miles.Petrol prices are crazy in Europe. In France, you can now only get E10 and 98 at petrol stations. The 98 is generally no higher than 1e70 and usually down to 1euro65.In Switzerland, the Frank equals the euro at the moment and fuel is a little more expensive than France (3cents or so). Remember your vignettes (ebay is your friend). Euros accepted at roughly 60% of petrol stations.In Italy, you can still get 95 and 98 - no E10 yet. It is about 5cents more than France but varies a lot. I forked out 1euro92 near Stelvio at a Shell!Luxembourg still had the cheapest petrol. 1euro25 or so... Long queue for the motorway stations. 95 available (I think).Belgium, a little higher than France. 95 available.All sell 20w50 engine oil at most stations.Only Esso and Carrefour (the French Supermarket) sell gearbox oil - I melted the oil seal in my diff at Naples! Otherwise, ask at a garage and they'll sell you it out of a drum.Brake fluid available everywhere.No idea what the official Euro rate is but the cachpoints were kicking about 1euro15 to the pound.On-the-run food is expensive everywhere. Remember your 2 triangles, fire extinguisher for Germany, hi-vis for everyone in the car, spare bulbs, beam benders, yadda yadda yaddaSorry I can't join you!Have a great time and any questions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 What's E10?Why two triangles?CheersMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 10% Ethanol. Hadn't realised its use was so widespread in Europe yet as it buggers up even quite modern cars. As well as potentially attacking the rubbers exposed to fuel it can give the appearance of lean running as the stochiometric ratio for E10 is about 14:1 rather than 14.7:1, so approx 5% more fuel is needed for the same amount of air, and increase fuel consumption for the same reason. In the longer term it can lead to fuel system metals corrosion as it effectively makes water and petrol miscible - more of a problem in cars being used intermittently. Another potential side effect in older vehicles is loosening the decades accumulations of fossilised hydrocarbons and dumping them in your filters (you have filters right...?)On the plus side, it has a high octane rating so pinking shouldn't be a problem.......Really is a minefield being cheerfully pushed through by legislators with boxes to tickwho have no idea (and care even less) of the consequences.Best idea - use the 98 stuff..... although I suspect the odd tank or half tank running through in course of the run would do no lasting harm..... maybe.As an aside, some may remember my unintentional test of E85 (85% ethanol) in my injected Vitesse. It didn't like it one bit, but it did manage to drag itself 10miles home and once the tank was drained down to a gallon or so and refilled with real stuff it was fine and has been ever since. My Honda lawnmower drank the remains of the E85 over 2.5 summers and apart from being an absolute sod to start from cold it ran reasonably ok with no adjustment whatever and a further 2 summers on it still functioning well enough on 95. It's 26 years old so I doubt ethanol compatibility was on the design brief.Thanks for the heads-up Jonny.... prices are scary enough for me, should have pulled my finger out on the lpg!CheersNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaming Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:10% Ethanol. Hadn't realised its use was so widespread in Europe yet as it buggers up even quite modern cars. As well as potentially attacking the rubbers exposed to fuel it can give the appearance of lean running as the stochiometric ratio for E10 is about 14:1 rather than 14.7:1, so approx 5% more fuel is needed for the same amount of air, and increase fuel consumption for the same reason. In the longer term it can lead to fuel system metals corrosion as it effectively makes water and petrol miscible - more of a problem in cars being used intermittently. Another potential side effect in older vehicles is loosening the decades accumulations of fossilised hydrocarbons and dumping them in your filters (you have filters right...?)On the plus side, it has a high octane rating so pinking shouldn't be a problem.......Really is a minefield being cheerfully pushed through by legislators with boxes to tickwho have no idea (and care even less) of the consequences.Best idea - use the 98 stuff..... although I suspect the odd tank or half tank running through in course of the run would do no lasting harm..... maybe.Thanks for the heads-up Jonny.... prices are scary enough for me, should have pulled my finger out on the lpg!CheersNickTake some Millers VSPe with you to add to each 40(?) litres of fuel in the tank at refills. Also has an octane improvement of 2 points when used.Cheers,Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky_spit Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Anyone running a diesel Triumph would be laughing, I found diesel in rural towns in France at 1.22 euros a litrea couple of weeks ago. That must be about £1.05 or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hmm, TR7 boys are laughing - there was a Sherpa fitted with Peugeot XUD engine and LT77 5 speed so all parts exist for a quick swap :PNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 steaming wrote:Take some Millers VSPe with you to add to each 40(?) litres of fuel in the tank at refills. Also has an octane improvement of 2 points when used.Cheers,Alan.Not sure that the Millers stuff is going to help with the potential lean running issues or with the ethanol attacking many rubber compounds. Octane is not usually the issue with higher ethanol fuels as ethanol is an octane booster.Interesting article herehttp://www.allsafe-fuel.org/TechPaper.pdfCheersNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfrid Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If you really want to have the bad news about E10, have a look at the report for the Department for Transport by Qineteq. the site is www.qinetiq+ethanol It will take some timebecause it is lengthy and very wordy but it will frighten you stiff. ANYONE WITH A CLASSIC CARSHOULD AVOID E10Wilfrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaming Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Millers VSPe is the new Millers product that, amongst other things, includes "Ethonal Protection".When I spoke with Miller's Technical dept. last week, I was informed that their VSP product is being replaced by VSPe, and it "combats the adverse effects of ethanol in fuel" it says on the container.The statement I made about increasing the octane rating by 2 points is wrong. What I should have quoted is that it "adds up to 2 Octane numbers (20 points) to unleaded fuel". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyk5614 Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 E10 is ALWAYS clearly marked as E10 and usually in English too. Where it is sold, whilst they have phased out standard 95, they have 98. You will never be forced to use E10.The sign on the pump said read the manual if pre 2003. Current advice that I have read on the forum is don't go anywhere near it in a classic!In Italy, beware that blue is used for the super version of either diesal or petrol! I always checked "scusi, è benzina" to be on the safe side. Also, where the pumps are serviced, I never quite worked it out, but there appears to be 4.5cents less if you fill up yourself. At the few places just selling undeaded and diesel - it was 95 unleaded, not E10.The two triangles are required in Spain and somewhere else. One in front, one behind the car. Also, they and the high-vis jackets must be in the car, not the boot. On another note, I use K&N pancakes in my Spitfire. I've never had a "cold air" problem but in the heat I found I was losing a fair chunk of power but only past about 40'c air temperature (Florence downwards) so you will probably be OK. Might be worth changing to the "pipe in front of rad" original spec though... Actual cooling was never a problem, although it tended to run hotter on 95 (I have a standard narrow rad setup with an oil cooler). As a precaution, I took an Aussi market thermostat with me but never needed to fit it. Those with Tomtoms, the speed camera database is very good although many Italian 50kph ones are missing. The missing ones are always in towns, and painted blue or orange. They are a little higher than postboxes and check your speed when you are alongside then photograph the rear. In Sitzerland, THE DATABASE IS DISABLED - I tried to add a camera and the button was greyed out. Swiss cameras are hardly ever signposted and often just before or after tunnels. They look like chunky CCTV cameras and have one in each direction. They are grey.In other countries, where you are supposed to turn off the warnings, it still worked. Don't use a radar detector in France, the police will check.French and Belgian cameras are about the size of an small chest of draws, grey and with hazard tape (yellow and black stripes) arround the edge. German cameras can look like anything, and be hidden!France has average speed checks, but these are signposted as "Safety Instructors"! They can also time you between toll booths.On the subject of tolls, every single toll in France or Italy now takes a credit card, notes or cash. Not in all lanes though! Cash in basket symbol (France & Italy) is automatic and cash only. CB is credit cards in France and a very small blue box with the outlines of 3 cards in it is credit cards in Italy. A real live person will take anything... If you can, follow a motorcycle though an auto-toll. I avoided a 60euro toll in France because the barrier didn't detect him pass through and the light stayed green. The machine wouldn't take my ticket and the man on the assistance bell said "is OK to go" so I went! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyk5614 Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Soeey, I meant Italy has average speed checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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