Body off restoration of my car

[Spitfire1500]

Hey everyone,

As time goes by and my insurance company haven't got back to me (I will give them a friendly call tomorrow or the day after asking about progress) I am playing with the idea of a full body restoration of my car.

If I get some money from the insurance company (I should really) then cool, I can put that towards saving up for a good bodied Spitfire MK III or maybe 1500 (always preferred the MK3 though) with MoT and tax and go from there. I'm not intent on getting a run about because I will be getting my dads car at some point anyway and as I am planning on getting another Spitfire anyway it seems a waste of time and money.

But apart from that, I am going to arrange to hold onto the wreck with the intent of fully restoring it, the engine, rear differential, spring, body seem all too good to get crushed in a scrapyard. Although apart from the crash damage my gearbox has had a leak on it for a long time - which may be just the drain plug or gaskets or something else.

However, the restoration will involve the following:

<li>Replacement chassis
</li> <li>Welding rear wings
</li> <li>Recondition gearbox (probably not a big job, just need to sort the slow leak out, it performs very well with and without the over drive enabled)
</li> <li>Replace front suspension
</li> <li>Replace bonnet
</li> <li>Replace plastic grill
</li> <li>Replace chrome bumper
</li> <li>Replace 1/4 valances
</li> <li>Replace plastic overriders
</li> <li>Replace headlamps
</li> <li>Replace bonnet stay
</li> <li>Replace fan
</li> <li>Full respray
</li> </ul>

I will continue to look at other garages in my local area but I have a good few months before I will be losing my garage.

Anyone care to offer any advice in case I am missing something or doing things the wrong way?

Thanks in advance,

David

[toomanyprojects]

David,

You could write a book on this subject (And many have been). But no matter how much advice you recieve and how much you read, you have to find out for yourself.....  As I did  ::)

When you first start a "body off restoration" it's hard not to turn into a perfectionist and then the job takes years and lots of money.

If I give you just 3 pieces of advice they are...

1: Make notes, label what you take off, store it carefully and keep it dry and well organised.

2: Don't buy anything other than what you need for the next job. Body Panels cost loads and there's no point having paint, carpets, trim, ariel, radio and so on while you'll still be welding for another year.

3: Think about what your doing and the consequences of it and plan the job before you start. F.Ex if the part of the chassis that the body is attached to is still square you may be better off changing wings and so on before you risk bending you weak body by taking it off the chassis...

You can see the more recent days of my restoration

here

http://more-power.blogspot.com/2006/07/project-spitfire-update.html

here

http://more-power.blogspot.com/2006/09/project-spitfire-update-2.html

and here

http://more-power.blogspot.com/2006/11/project-spitfire-update-3.html

with some more photo's here

http://more-power.co.uk/photos/default.aspx

and the earlier (and rather scary days) here

http://www.more-power.co.uk/oldsite/home_frame.htm

(under projects)

These should give you some idea about the magnitude of what's ahead for you

When I get time, I hope to write a bit of a "web photo log" of my restoration with my thoughts and tips about the order I did things, what I've learnt and so on. Will let you know when it's underway. First priority is to get the car on the road...

You've plenty of time, start planning and saving and accept that very few of the Spitfires that start a body off restoration(DIY) are back on the road inside, I would guess 5 years.

I think I have just written a book for you. :-/

[Deleted User]

David, the cost of a body off restoration will always be many times more than the finished project will ever be worth. If you have a particular emotional attachment to the car then go on and do it.

But if it's just another car then you will be ploughing a lot of time and money into it; have a serious think about it first. The bits you mention as being too good to scrap sound like a good collection of spares, not necessarily the basis for a project.

If you need to employ someone else to do the panelwork on the car the fitting costs (NOT including painting) will be at least twice the retail price of each panel. There are many more car restorers out there than Triumph specialists, it will make a lot of difference to the finished car if you use someone cheaper who doesn't know the foibles of a Triumph.

Of course, you could use this as an opportunity to gain new skills in car restoration. It won't be easy, you will probably have to do many things twice (at least) and it will take at least a year longer than you initially think it will. Restoring the car properly yourself could be very rewarding, it could also seriously get in the way of your social life!

The decision is ultimately yours, just don't think that you have to keep it because it's your first car. Even if you get salvage rights from the insurers there's no obligation for you to keep it.

[toomanyprojects]

Question, will the car be a Cat. 1 or 2 write off. If so you are not legally allowed to fix it?

If the car is a Cat. 3 or 4 write off then you can restore it but the "write off" tag hangs over the car forever and anyone doing a check on the car will find this out.

[Deleted User]

if he is replacing the chassis he should be able to get one with a new v5 and avoiding that problem

[toomanyprojects]

Then it'll end up on a Q-Plate, or does it not work like that anymore.

[Spitfire1500]

Cheers for the help and advice everyone! ;D

It is going to be a long road and I need to find a more permanent garage when I start but I have all the time in the world to do this.

Not sure what the insurance says about my car. As far as I know the guy that assessed the crash damage took a picture of the inside of the car (odometer) and the side of the vehicle and didn't make any attempt to have the bonnet lifted or anything.

All he would have seen was the few hundred miles I have clocked over the past few weeks, and the wheel pushed up against the bulkhead/outer sill as well as the bent bonnet so that may affect what category it is (perhaps even a low one, i.e. 3 or 4).

I'm wondering now if I will need a new registration plate (as well as chassis/Vin number) and what kind of legal mess I might get in with all this talk of restoring my car.

In the worst case, it may be just a case of stripping it and keeping/selling the good bits if this does get messy!

David

[toomanyprojects]

Just make sure you get the facts straight before you start anything.

[Spitfire1500]

toomanyprojects wrote:

Just make sure you get the facts straight before you start anything.

Very good advice there!

At the moment I'm leaving the car as is for now no point even touching it until everything comes back from my insurance.

I was reading the following guide:

http://www.carinsuranceonline.org.uk/totallosswriteoff.html and it looks like I may be a Cat C, D or X. I think it's far too complete to be any higher but that is down to the insurance in the end!

David

[Deleted User]

i dont think you need a q plate, seeing as you would have a 1500 chassis with a 1500 engine and bodywork it would be legit but you would need to check up

[Ryan]

toomanyprojects wrote:

2: Don't buy anything other than what you need for the next job. Body Panels cost loads and there's no point having paint, carpets, trim, ariel, radio and so on while you'll still be welding for another year.

Can't stress ow important that is. Don't buy shiney stuff, buy stuff that you can put to use immediatley, not only will the project go quicker, it will keep up motivation as you can see you project moving along instead of a pile of parts.

[heraldcoupe]

A secondhand body or chassis is an AUTOMATIC qualifier for a Q plate. By law you should tell DVLA about this kind of swap, yet very few rebuilt Spitfires actually end up on Q plates. Read into that what you will, make your own decision. No-one here is going to TELL you to break the law......
Cheers,
Bill.

[Spitfire1500]

Hey Bill,

Would rather do it legally, better for things like this I think. Anything that needs to be done to the car of that nature needs to be noted and 'declared' as such especially for something like a new chassis.

David

[heraldcoupe]

If you're happy with a Q plate I'm not going to stop you.....

[Spitfire1500]

heraldcoupe wrote:

If you're happy with a Q plate I'm not going to stop you.....

After all this, I don't actually know what a Q plate is. What is a Q plate in this context...any advantages or disadvantages to it?

Edit: Am I right in thinking it means a new registration plate? As in only necesary if I can prove most of the vehicle is new and if the replacement chassis if the shell is heritage, that kind of thing?

Hmm, theres an article here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

Think that's all I need to know.

It seems if I score 8 points (i.e. body shell/chassis, axle, suspension, steering) I can retain my original registration mark. However, I will still need to probably get a new VIN sorted perhaps, even a new one generated for the new chassis.

Thanks,

David

[toomanyprojects]

"If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used,"

I read that such that if you use another 2nd hand chassis it's automatically a Q-Plate.

I remember now that I didn't have to worry with the Landrover as I used a Brand New Chassis which was OK.

Normally you only see Q-Plates on Kit Cars, I wouldn't want one on any of my classics ( not that that's likely since I don't reside in the UK anymore (I don't even want to think about the kit/modified vehicle regs over here...))...

[heraldcoupe]

A Q plate signifies that there is some question over the car's identity. Many of us will walk away rapidly from any car on a Q plate. Otherwise we would at least expect it to be substantially cheaper than an otherwise identical car, on a more appropriate registration.
Q plates are loved and loathed in equal measure by those in the kit car fraternity. Some see them as a badge of honour, others dislike them as they hark back to the days of kit cars looking like Lego! In classic car circles they are treated with universal suspicion. At worst one will make a classic car completely unsaleable,
Cheers,
Bill.

[Spitfire2500]

Spitfire1500 wrote:

Hmm, theres an article here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

The above is for radically altered (i.e. modified) vehicles, the following link (for rebuilt...vehcles) is more appropriate for your situation:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014246

In short -- new chassis or body and you keep your registration. Use a second-hand chassis or body then strictly speaking you get a Q plate.

In this context modified means altered from the original specification. When you repair the existing chassis or body you are returning it to its original specification/condition -- you are not modifying it!

Cheers,

[heraldcoupe]

Spitfire2500 wrote:

In short -- new chassis or body and you keep your registration. Use a second-hand chassis or body then strictly speaking you get a Q plate.

In this context modified means altered from the original specification. When you repair the existing chassis or body you are returning it to its original specification/condition -- you are not modifying it!

Of course all of those GT6 Convertibles are based on GT6 shells with the roof cut off, rather than secondhand Spitfire shells......

[Spitfire2500]

heraldcoupe wrote:

Of course all of those GT6 Convertibles are based on GT6 shells with the roof cut off, rather than secondhand Spitfire shells......

You've lost me there... ;) :D ;D

[Spitfire1500]

Ah nice one!

I now fully understand all this now!

Still waiting for the insurance company to get back to me but an engineer is going to look at the car this afternoon.

I think it's now down to him what happens with the insurance. He'll probably total up all the damage and then give the car a category listing for the insurance company to now study.

David

[Jason]

Cutting the roof off a GT6 scores less points than replacing the shell with a Spit one.

It would be quite wrong of us to suggest that you can just tell the DVLA the bare minimum and carry on quite safely whilst breaking the law but undetectable in doing so.

Remember that "our" cars are pretty special in having separate chassis and effetively modular bodies, a bent chassis is not fatal. Large chunks of our cars can be changed with a set of spanners and no welding, this leaves them as safe as they were when they left the factory. You can create a GT6 convertible without a welding torch, likewise a Herald/Vitesse convertible or estate of van from a saloon - again with the right bits, no welding required.