Shaun5190 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Good evening all I have made a stupid and probably expensive mistake with my spitfire! I had just been out on my first drive after the restoration, got back to the yard and stupidly put the car into reverse without depressing the clutch... Crunch. Now when i put the car into any gear and lift the clutch there is a vibration but no movement. I assume i have fatally wounded the input shaft or something? Has anyone had a similar problem? (Unlikely that else anyone has been so dumb) or any recommendation for what i should do next to diagnose or fix? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Odd. Normally, when you try that, it just makes huge graunching sound and refuses to go in, or if you do manage to get it in, it stalls. Neither are usually fatal to anything, though some damage to the reverse idler is to be expected. What was the condition of your clutch and gearbox prior to this? You say it was the first drive "after the restoration" but you don't say whether that was a body-only restoration or included mechanical. It's possible you've ripped the centre out of the clutch driven plate but only if it was on its last legs anyway. Same goes for any other failure modes I can think of - your stupid mistake was something that happens quite a lot and the drive train should survive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 How does the clutch and gear selection feel? All still the same? You could try selecting a gear gently with the engine running and no clutch operation. If it graunches then drive is still coming through the clutch and the problem is down stream. The downside is that you could possibly do more expensive damage to the gearbox internals.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Quoted from RobPearce- Odd. Normally, when you try that, it just makes huge graunching sound and refuses to go in, or if you do manage to get it in, it stalls. Neither are usually fatal to anything, though some damage to the reverse idler is to be expected. What was the condition of your clutch and gearbox prior to this? You say it was the first drive "after the restoration" but you don't say whether that was a body-only restoration or included mechanical. It's possible you've ripped the centre out of the clutch driven plate but only if it was on its last legs anyway. Same goes for any other failure modes I can think of - your stupid mistake was something that happens quite a lot and the drive train should survive it. Hi Rob, The restoration was body and most mechanical parts, however the gearbox and clutch are a few of the only original bits left! The gearbox seemed fine before the restoration and the clutch seemed serviceable, i will have to pull the gearbox out on Monday but i hope its as simple as a failed clutch plate as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 Quoted from glang- How does the clutch and gear selection feel? All still the same? You could try selecting a gear gently with the engine running and no clutch operation. If it graunches then drive is still coming through the clutch and the problem is down stream. The downside is that you could possibly do more expensive damage to the gearbox internals.... Hi glang, The clutch doesnt seem any different it just makes a grumbly noise and vibration when you put it in gear and try to drive, the gears seem to select just fine still just no drive, i havent tried putting in gear without pushing the clutch but not sure i want to risk it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Also of course it could be diff so worth seeing if the prop is turning when in drive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteStupps Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 If it's any consolation, I have attempted to put cars into gear without pressing the clutch, more than once. Also had these symptoms in my 1300fwd after a normal gear-change. Turned out as Rob suggests, the clutch plate centre had broken off and was sitting happily on the input shaft, with no influence from the rest of the clutch. It was a new-old-stock clutch plate but I'd fitted it the wrong way round. It wasn't marked 'flywheel side' or anything so that's my excuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppy916 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 do you have overdrive ? was this left engaged, maybe the solenoid switch doesn't work, is the prop shaft U/J still intact, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Quoted from PeteStupps- If it's any consolation, I have attempted to put cars into gear without pressing the clutch, more than once. Also had these symptoms in my 1300fwd after a normal gear-change. Turned out as Rob suggests, the clutch plate centre had broken off and was sitting happily on the input shaft, with no influence from the rest of the clutch. It was a new-old-stock clutch plate but I'd fitted it the wrong way round. It wasn't marked 'flywheel side' or anything so that's my excuse... Thanks Pete, Good to know someone else has had the same symptoms, I just hope it is as simple as the clutch plate being broken! I will be taking the gearbox out this afternoon and have a new clutch on order so fingers crossed that is all it needs! I was hoping to give the car a shakedown before a day out this weekend, so i have my work cut out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Quoted from Guppy916- do you have overdrive ? was this left engaged, maybe the solenoid switch doesn't work, is the prop shaft U/J still intact, Hi Guppy, I do have overdrive, but it wasnt engaged at the time, i had tested it during the day and it worked fine. I havent checked the UJ but i imagine it would make a lot of noise if they had failed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Thank you for your suggestions eveyone, i have it sorted now, turns out i was double stupid!! I got down the yard last night to work on the car and try to diagnose the issue, where i started off by turning the propshaft by hand to see what happens. The gearbox and clutch held firm, however i could freely turn the prop shaft without the back wheels doing anything. I thought it must be the diff and set about removing it to see whats up. It was only by chance that just before i finished removing it i accidentally rotated one of the driveshafts with the handbrake applied... The drivshaft rotated and the hub stayed in place! Turns out i never torqued up the hub nutes and the jolt of putting it in gear freed the driveshaft from the hub. I got back over there this afternoon and finished putting everything back together, then i torqued up the hub nuts and all was well again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Glad you've located the problem but the only thing worrying me is that I thought the hub would be fixed by a key on the end of the halfshaft. With that even having a loose nut shouldn't mean loss of drive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 Quoted from glang- Glad you've located the problem but the only thing worrying me is that I thought the hub would be fixed by a key on the end of the halfshaft. With that even having a loose nut shouldn't mean loss of drive.... Hmmm, you raise a good point! I am certain i would have installed the keys, whether it wasnt seated properly or has fallen out somehow? I shall have to pull that hub back off and investigate. Thanks for the observation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 The keys are not very strong and the hub gets a LOT of torque through it. If the nuts work loose then you're likely to lose or destroy the key, particularly when abruptly changing direction. You will need to pull the hub and inspect closely. With a bit of luck you've got away with it and won't need to replace the hub and/or shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun5190 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Quoted from RobPearce- The keys are not very strong and the hub gets a LOT of torque through it. If the nuts work loose then you're likely to lose or destroy the key, particularly when abruptly changing direction. You will need to pull the hub and inspect closely. With a bit of luck you've got away with it and won't need to replace the hub and/or shaft. I pulled off the hub today and as you say, the key had sheared off, but fortunately it had not damaged the hub or the axle! I installed a new key and replaced the other side too for good measure, now it is all back together and torqued up to spec both sides. Also had the wheels aligned so now she drives in a straight line too! Thanks for your help everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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