Rear springs

[Alex]

I've got a big saggy bit at the back!

When accelerating it just sinks, I've got new trailing arm bushes to fit and subframe bushes just need a bit of garage time.

The rear dampers are nearly new although only cheapies....cant afford to change them at the moment.
I'm thinking with stiffer springs it could reduce the amount of lost momentum and decrease body roll at the rear?
Not overly concerned with ride height its a prefacelift and does currently have a nice stance. To be honest if theres more than 1 or 2 in the car its really droops so I need to do something before the round britain.

I'd considered estate springs but how much would they lift the rear? a little could be ok alot less so.

All help gratefully recieved

Alex

[Alex]

Is thier a cheap source for springs? I realise thier not silly expensive however its all starting to add up ....so I'm informed ::)
I've just looked at Chris Witors options but does anyone know what a standard spring is?

[DJB_Harvey]

I would use Witor fast road rear 475LB 1" lower rears with one standard spring seat and one +5MM one at the bottom and if changing fronts use pre facelift intermediate semi fast road 160 LB...this is my starting point now for all big saloons that come through my hands ....works very well for everyday road use..PS fit a front anti-roll bar too !..All the folks cars ive converted to this set up have loved it..Hope this helps.

[Richard B]

I have a pair of 410lb FRR CW springs which Tim gave to me when the springs I ordered from Chris were on back-order. Not as good a his 475lb, but they may improve the situation.

ps  

[Alex]

That'd be great Richard thanks.

[piman]

Hello Alex,

you may find that your sag disappears when you replace the bushes?

Spring data:- Saloon to Ml\MN1 277 lb\inch, 12.41" free length, 8 1\4 working coils
                   Saloon afterMl\MN  277lb\inch, free length 12.91", 10 1\4 working coils

Alec

[piman]

Hello Alex,

you may find that your sag disappears when you replace the bushes?

Spring data:- Saloon to Ml\MN1 277 lb\inch, 12.41" free length, 8 1\4 working coils
                   Saloon afterMl\MN  277lb\inch, free length 12.91", 10 1\4 working coils

Alec

[Tim Bancroft]

Blimey, those springs are getting about!

Change the bushes!

[Alex]

Thanks Alec!

Tim I'm going to but I better not take anything else apart before next weekend!
Something always seems to go wrong ;).......Although how straightforward are the subframe bushes? 20 mins a side ;D ;D?

Alex

[thescrapman]

Alex wrote:

Thanks Alec!

Tim I'm going to but I better not take anything else apart before next weekend!
Something always seems to go wrong ;).......Although how straightforward are the subframe bushes? 20 mins a side ;D ;D?

Alex

With a suitable home-made tool, about 60 mins a side, if you do then in situ, and they come out easily.

I wouldn't ever do tehm in situ, too much like hard-work and I don't do lying upside down.

So it is driveshafts out and and do it on the bench.

Easy afternoons work, without the pressure.

Cheers

Colin

[Alex]

Is that the subframe bushes Colin or the trailing arm bushes?

[thescrapman]

trailing arm bushes.

Subframe one can be done 15 mins a side. presoak everything in penetrating fluid, the bolts will be rusted solid.

Also check state of teh straps, they too will be rusted thin. And you will find holes under teh bush and under tehstrap, be prepare for that.

Cheers

Colin

[Tim Bancroft]

I found inserting polybushes a real pain in the a*se-took hours-using threading and big washers-def a bench job-with a big vice and loads of washing up liquid.

[Tim Bancroft]

I found inserting polybushes a real pain in the a*se-took hours-using threading and big washers-def a bench job-with a big vice and loads of washing up liquid.

[piman]

Hello Tim,  

I had a totally opposite experience i fitting the Superflex (Chris Witor) ones, I have done a couple of cars and they just pushed in and no spreading required.

Getting old rubber bushes out is a real pain, I originally used a threaded bar and tube spacer to try and pull them out which failed. I then used a welding torch on them, pulled out easily after that.

Alec

[thescrapman]

timbancroft61 wrote:

I found inserting polybushes a real pain in the a*se-took hours-using threading and big washers-def a bench job-with a big vice and loads of washing up liquid.

I made a tool from some old exhaust pipe (or possiby dolomite filler neck pipe), subframe washers,  and some M10 threaded bar.

Got the new ones in in a minute or 2 each.

Getting the old ones out was another matter... :-(

I drilled as many holes as I could. killed the drill in the prcocess, then pulled them through with the tool.

Cheers

Colin

[Tim Bancroft]

Not ecologically sound, but burn them out-easy!

I used polybush items-maybe slightly different.

[Lord Sorbington]

I'd still renew the bushes etc. before fitting firmer springs.  Even with fatties on board and a bootfull of [s]corpses[/s] luggage, my car is OK on standard rear springs: great comfort, nice damping control, not much body roll, little squat under acceleration and it never bottoms out.  If you regulary carry lots of gold bars in the boot or go on trackdays, then maybe firmer springs would be an idea but otherwise there is absolutely no point unless you crave a loss of ride comfort, traction and damping control.

Those 160lb/in front springs aren't all they're cracked up to be, save your money. The standard front springs are better. I'm not sure what dampers people have used in conjunction with the 160 springs but the KYB gas items in my strut assemblies really aren't that well matched to the springs.  :(

I'm trying to instil a sense of perspective here, it's easy to get suckered into "upgrading" and changing things for the sake of it, or because everyone else is doing it.  As I've found out, the benefits offered by some of the widely accepted modifications are dubious to say the least.  My bank balance bears the scars........

[Tim Bancroft]

I replaced the shockers and springs on my car for 200/400 lb and KYB struts at the front and 575lb and KYB at the rear-found the car's handling greatly improved. C/W polybushes etc the car handles very well.

Found the ride be very acceptable.

We are all different, I like the sportier handling that my car now has.

[sahtuning2000]

I,f anyone has a s/h set of lowered springs for my mk1 can they contact me
Also after a CW sports back box,my friend gave me his but its baffles appear to have had it,i have the sports centre section.

[James]

Here we go again with Sorbs telling us that standard is "best" :)

I don't think anybody who installs "fast road springs" thinks that their ride is going to be "better"

The main thing is to do everything right - get your bushes done, make sure you match uprated springs and decent dampers etc

To say that a car set up for fast road driving isn't as good as a standard car is totally missing the point... you don't own one unless you want to go fast :)

[Lord Sorbington]

;D  You lot never fail to bite! Of course standard is best.

Alex, ignoring the "Pimp my Triumph" brigade for a moment,  my point is that a mk2 saloon on standard rear springs should remain fairly taut even when laden. Given that yours doesn't, the advice to renew the bushes etc before altering spring rates is sound in my view.

Don't make too many changes at once, or you'll never be able to work out where you fucked up!

[AlanChatterton]

Fast road in a 2000 auto.................ha!

I have the 160lb front spings in the yellow estate, and coupled with Stag oil front shocks the transformation is amazing (no more comecy suspension Alex!!)

Depends how you drive them and what you want.

I think old Sorbs is just getting old and misses his "arm-chair" moments.........!

[Alex]

sorbs wrote:

no point unless you crave a loss of ride comfort, traction and damping control.

If I want to lean round bends in comfort I'll drive my galaxy,its got more torque and power with 50 mpg.
The point in the saloon is loosing traction!  ;D
I'm changing the bushes however the extra grunt from the manual shows how soft the springs are.

Sorbs I appreciate your stirring the pot but we are all very different,I like a firm ride with a bit of oversteer if the mood takes me.This is why I've changed to manual on the other hand if you'd rather plod along in an auto thats up to you ;)

If indeed standard was best why do manufacturers make different models?

I've heard it said many times that the 1500 spit is the best package triumph ever produced.Well mines nowhere near standard and its better than original so does that make everything I've done a f*** up?

[Lord Sorbington]

All I ask is that you ensure you understand what you're doing and that you're not just buying fancy crap that you can boast about in the pub. That really does seem to be the case.

Manual gearboxes......the crudest solution available to mask the inadequacies of the internal combustion engine........ ::)

But seriously, 160 lb/in springs and KYB gas dampers, as sold and recommmended by a well known supplier, not really that good!!  No handling improvement, and the only real reason that the ride is worse is that the dampers aren't properly matched to the characteristics of the springs.