J type O/D gearbox in Herald 12/50

[Wendy Dawes]

Hi everyone,

i have located a J type gearbox which I plan to fit in Mabel in the spring.   

What ancillaries will I need .  I have the gearbox mount, and a Vitesse non O/D propshaft. ( maybe from a Mk1 1600)   I also have a mounting plate ( just don’t know where I’ve put it 🙄 got a few weeks to find it amongst my bits and pieces in the shed ) 

dont know yet if the angle drive is still on the gearbox as I’m collecting it in February at Stoneleigh

will I need anything else please

many thanks 😊

[Clive]

Longer speedo cable

Rubber mount

Clutch plate (dolomite 1300)

OD switch. On a herald a column switch is rather nice and would be what the factory used on their "special order" cars if they actually sold any. (I am guessing they did, but the Herald had an option of a spitfire engine, and also an OD box at some point) 

A single rail box is a smidge longer than a d type OD. Plus has the "large flange" so you will need a prop that is an inch (approx) shorter and has a large flange at the front, small at the back. 

There are solutions. I have used spacers to move the engine forward enough to use a vitesse prop. And it may be possible to redrill the OD flange, though not certain. (I have seen diff flanges re-drilled on many occasions) Betterr is to get the prop shortened and the correct flange fitted, new UJs and rebalanced so you know it is all good.

[Wendy Dawes]

Thanks Clive, I have the 13/60 clutch in Mabel which I upgraded to when I bought her don’t know if it’s the same as 1300 Dolly.   

Darren’s buying me a column switch for Christmas so that will be nice 

hope  it all goes well at fitting  time

a tense moment lol 

[Clive]

1360 clutch has coarse splines, single rail box is fine splines. Hence dolly 1300 plate (correct size and fine spline)

[glang]

Just to clarify, it definitely is a single rail box is it? I believe some Spitfires did get a 3 rail box with J type OD...

[Wendy Dawes]

6 minutes ago, glang said:

Just to clarify, it definitely is a single rail box is it? I believe some Spitfires did get a 3 rail box with J type OD...

Don’t know at the moment I’can find out though thank you 

[Wendy Dawes]

1 hour ago, Clive said:

1360 clutch has coarse splines, single rail box is fine splines. Hence dolly 1300 plate (correct size and fine spline)

Thank you Clive 

[glang]

1 minute ago, Wendy Dawes said:

Don’t know at the moment I’can find out though thank you 

Unlikely as theyre quite rare but would make things like propshaft and clutch easier...

[standardthread]

1 hour ago, Wendy Dawes said:

Thanks Clive, I have the 13/60 clutch in Mabel which I upgraded to when I bought her don’t know if it’s the same as 1300 Dolly.   

Darren’s buying me a column switch for Christmas so that will be nice 

hope  it all goes well at fitting  time

a tense moment lol 

1300 Dolomite clutch driven plate, 6 1/4" 20 spline, good luck trying to find one, it will probably cost you as much as your O/D, try looking for a Marina version, I think they are the same size etc. but may have different spring pressures.

The prop, I've used a standard Vitesse prop on a three rail O/D without any mods, wait until you get the box in place in the car, then measure things up.

Different flange prop to box, the prop yokes are interchangeable from small to large, I've done it.

[Wendy Dawes]

4 minutes ago, glang said:

Unlikely as theyre quite rare but would make things like propshaft and clutch easier...

Thanks for the advice let’s live in hope lol 👍😊

[glang]

7 minutes ago, standardthread said:

1300 Dolomite clutch driven plate, 6 1/4" 20 spline, good luck trying to find one, it will probably cost you as much as your O/D, try looking for a Marina version, I think they are the same size etc. but may have different spring pressures.

I think things have changed as Rimmers do one although as usual not cheap...

Clutch Plate Only - GCP244 | Rimmer Bros

[RobPearce]

21 minutes ago, standardthread said:

try looking for a Marina version, I think they are the same size etc. but may have different spring pressures.

When I was at Rover, I was told (by one of the older calibration engineers, an Austin man originally) that the only difference between a Dolomite clutch and a Marina one was that Triumph specified tighter tolerances on the various spring ratings, with the result that Marinas all got the "out of spec" ones and had horrible gear changes.

[standardthread]

11 minutes ago, glang said:

I think things have changed as Rimmers do one although as usual not cheap...

Clutch Plate Only - GCP244 | Rimmer Bros

Is it a recon or new? The previous owner of my previous Dolomite used a recon version and it literally exploded while my daughter was driving it and cracked the nose in the bellhousing.

As for prop see if the person you are buying the box off will also sell you the prop as well because the Herald and Spitfire chassis centre rails are identical, hence the formation of the TSSC.

[standardthread]

1 minute ago, RobPearce said:

When I was at Rover, I was told (by one of the older calibration engineers, an Austin man originally) that the only difference between a Dolomite clutch and a Marina one was that Triumph specified tighter tolerances on the various spring ratings, with the result that Marinas all got the "out of spec" ones and had horrible gear changes.

If all else fails, better to have a clutch and put up with horrible gear changes?

[glang]

wont be recon from Rimmers and certainly not at that price😁

[Clive]

35 minutes ago, Wendy Dawes said:

Don’t know at the moment I’can find out though thank you 

It is single rail... (good as stronger, less likely to wear etc)

Found this clutch on the bay of fleas. You can't get better than genuine laycock

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313123160603?hash=item48e798421b:g:

[standardthread]

1 hour ago, glang said:

I think things have changed as Rimmers do one although as usual not cheap...

Clutch Plate Only - GCP244 | Rimmer Bros

Just checked my spares cupboard to find my spare Dolomite plate (not for sale, I may need it).

Before this happened

1 hour ago, standardthread said:

Is it a recon or new? The previous owner of my previous Dolomite used a recon version and it literally exploded while my daughter was driving it and cracked the nose in the bellhousing.

 

I managed to pick two NOS Leyland plates up of ebay, they were sold to me as Dolomite plates, one I fitted after the explosion. The new owner of the car I fitted it to drove it 350 miles home in a single journey and was very happy with the car (we were in contact a few months after the sale). I drove the car a number of miles before sale.

The Leyland part number is GCP 188, in pen on the box is written 10cwt version (Marina?), the plate itself is a Borg.

Edited November 15, 2022 by standardthread

[JumpingFrog]

2 hours ago, Clive said:

It is single rail... (good as stronger, less likely to wear etc)

Found this clutch on the bay of fleas. You can't get better than genuine laycock

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313123160603?hash=item48e798421b:g:

I'd be very wary of that clutch, it doesn't look right to me. The cover is laycock but the friction plate looks like a B&B refurb. I think that seller has just combined parts to make a kit, that theoretically will work together, but in practice I don't think they will.

I know from experience that if you start mixing Laycock and B&B parts you will have issues. In my case it was a Laycock friction plate and a B&B cover, it wouldn't release, I assume because they both specified different plate thicknesses.

The clutch plates do come up on eBay, but how long you'll be waiting I don't know. I managed to get one for my car after a few months waiting. Will work with a normal B&B clutch cover.

Edited November 15, 2022 by JumpingFrog

[standardthread]

1 hour ago, Clive said:

It is single rail... (good as stronger, less likely to wear etc)

Found this clutch on the bay of fleas. You can't get better than genuine laycock

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313123160603?hash=item48e798421b:g:

WENDY STOP.

Just checked the listing, its for a 165mm (6 1/2") plate, it's for a 1500 Dolomite, Spitfire etc. The description is wrong.

[Clive]

6 minutes ago, standardthread said:

WENDY STOP.

Just checked the listing, its for a 165mm (6 1/2") plate, it's for a 1500 Dolomite, Spitfire etc. The description is wrong.

1500 Dolly/spit is 7 1/4"

spit/herald/dolly 1300 etc 6 1/2" (fine and coarse splines)

 

[Amy Wade]

There's always the option of finding a spitfire 1500 flywheel & using a matching clutch.

It's also worth making sure you have an oil seal on the input shaft, early single rail boxes had a scroll. 

I'm doing the same conversion on my Mk3 Spitfire, I bought a decomposing 1500 Spitfire and stripped all the bits I need from that. I plan on finishing it over winter, if I find any surprises I'll let you know. 

[Wendy Dawes]

Thanks everyone, I’m sure all the correct parts will be sourced, before March 

thank you 

[Wendy Dawes]

1 hour ago, Amy Wade said:

There's always the option of finding a spitfire 1500 flywheel & using a matching clutch.

It's also worth making sure you have an oil seal on the input shaft, early single rail boxes had a scroll. 

I'm doing the same conversion on my Mk3 Spitfire, I bought a decomposing 1500 Spitfire and stripped all the bits I need from that. I plan on finishing it over winter, if I find any surprises I'll let you know. 

Hi Amy, thanks for the input but I’m actually fitting the gearbox into a 12/50 Herald it’s an 1147 engine with mk1  spitfire camshaft so only needs a 1360 Herald  flywheel which is already fitted  

 

[cook1e]

On 15/11/2022 at 10:01, standardthread said:

Is it a recon or new? The previous owner of my previous Dolomite used a recon version and it literally exploded while my daughter was driving it and cracked the nose in the bellhousing.

As for prop see if the person you are buying the box off will also sell you the prop as well because the Herald and Spitfire chassis centre rails are identical, hence the formation of the TSSC.

That's not the case, the chassis are different in terms of length and also the Herald chassis has outer rails and the rear radius arms mount on the chassis rear outriggers where as the Spitfire has no outer rails and no rear outriggers and the radius arms mount on the body tub.  The wheel base is considerably longer on a Herald so a Spitfire prop will be far to short. Spitfire wheelbase 83 inches, Herald Wheel base 91 inches so it's about an 8 inch difference in terms of prop length!

[Wendy Dawes]

Thanks Andy,  I have had helpful advice from very knowledgeable sources who have fitted j types that the Vitesse non overdrive prop  is usually favoured for this upgrade on the Herald, as it is about the correct length give or take, and can easily be tweaked to fit