A Smörgåsbord of Triumphs

[Clive]

Did the CC trackday last week, what an excellent day out with fabulous company.

However, the spitfire has been playing funny games. Notably my air/fuel readings have been very erratic, mainly at idle. I did have a fiddle before the trackday, no improvement. At the trackday, I used a previous map that was known to be good. (It took me around the 10CR) and that made no difference. 

It struck me that as teh gauge was reading rich-weak-rich-weak and there was no real problem with the actual mapping it must be something else. The sensor is always a suspect, but I could feel the engine changing, so something was happening, but not as much as teh gauge would suggest. Real headscratcher.

I had an unextected brainwave. What if the fuel pressure was fluctuating? To that end I decided to knock up a pressure gauge, However, being an idiot, I had had a message from Roger, who suggested fuel pressure was a possibility, and a poor hose, fuel filter or relief valve could be the problem, not to mention teh pump itself. And I got sidelined, so changed the filter first.  That seemed to have helped, and when I fitted the pressure gauge, it is rock steady. But was the filter the issue????? I really ought to refit the old one....

Still need to do a test drive, so far just idling cold on teh driveway. But having evaded death from manflu, I am still feeling knackered. After lunch I may be revitalised.

 

[JohnD]

live,

Forgive me for not knowing how you have modified your car, but if you have a lambda meter, then I presume you use  the sensor to govern an Engine Management Unit (EMU)?    The signal from the sensor being used by the EMU to set the injectors?    Then, 'hunting' of the sensor signal that you see on the meter is normal!

Here's a typical example, that I copied from the 'Net, where it is one of many that demonstrate this.  See LAMBDA SENSOR (O2 SENSOR) (autoditex.com) and/or, search Lambda meter oscillation - Google Search

In fact, a flat, smooth graph would indicate a fault!     The software in the EMU constantly reads the sensor and adjusts the injectors, so that the actual mixture oscillates around the stoichiometric.   This provides a more rapid response that a more stable system.

John

[Clive]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

live,

Forgive me for not knowing how you have modified your car, but if you have a lambda meter, then I presume you use  the sensor to govern an Engine Management Unit (EMU)?    The signal from the sensor being used by the EMU to set the injectors?    Then, 'hunting' of the sensor signal that you see on the meter is normal!

Here's a typical example, that I copied from the 'Net, where it is one of many that demonstrate this.  See LAMBDA SENSOR (O2 SENSOR) (autoditex.com) and/or, search Lambda meter oscillation - Google Search

In fact, a flat, smooth graph would indicate a fault!     The software in the EMU constantly reads the sensor and adjusts the injectors, so that the actual mixture oscillates around the stoichiometric.   This provides a more rapid response that a more stable system.

John

Correct in some parts. The ECU is fully programmable, but I have turned the wideband control off so if the sensor is toast it can't affect the mapping.

I am getting reading of AFR 21, which is incredibly weak, but the car feels ok. So as I am feeling a bit perkier, I plan to change the sensor tomorrow. After I have been to the dentist (just a checkup, but medical appointments get more worrying as the years go by)

I

[JohnD]

If you have turned the lambda signal off, then the EMU is using some fixed map to set fuelling.   The signal from the lambda sensor cannot be affecting your performance!

John

[Clive]

A bit of work on tbe sprint engine build today. 

The inlet was grubby, so currently simmering away with a few dishwasher tablets. 

(And the pot is my garage all purpose pot!)

[Clive]

Meet Vicky, a 1964 Vitesse 6. Not mint, but rather nice. 

I inherited Vicky from a friend (Jon) who passed away last year. Things took a while to sort out, but we collected her after the CT autosolo a few weeks ago. 

I have done a couple of things. (1) fitted seatbelts, as she never had them. (2) fitted some mx5 seats, using the exact same mountings as the originals. So if required the originals can easily be refitted.

I have a few other things I would like to do, but more pressing is a change of a coolant hose that is looking well past its best

 

 

[Craig]

Looking good Clive. I remember Jon's Vitesse the first time around.

[Clive]

I have been prepping the Spitfire for a holiday. Really it was just swapping teh rear spring back to the one that was on the car until I swapped it a few months ago. That was a last ditch attempt to locate the source of a clonk. I have changed shocks, radius arm bushes and sorted a bot of wear in the radius arm brackets. Spring swapped, all no difference. I am now wondering if it is my brake cables (I have used shortened MGF cables) but also happy it simply can't be anything serious. 

I have also relocated the wideband sensor location, but not used it since. I will reprt back on how that pans out...

Now, the Vitesse. The trip to Silverstone went pretty well, but there are a couple of issues to address. Firstly a missfire once warm and over 3500rpm. At Silverstone I found NOS dizzy cap and rotor arm. I have also fitted an aldon electronic ignition. And arrived yesterday a new set of BP6es plugs (when I changed them I found it had BP7es fitted, and they were a little wet/fouled, possibly from the pottering about in town. A new set of leads from Mr Retrolead also fitted, as some of the old ones were corroded to the old cap, and even after a couple of hunderd miles, one lead lost its end in the new cap. I need a good run in it to check it out, but I am hopeful.

The next is the propshaft. It is out of balance, and I suspect a new one will be the sensible option as it feels like the UJs are worn, and the sliding joint is a bit tired too.

The bid issue is the fuel system. If I stop after a run, and leave the car for say 10 mins, the fuel pump is very hot. Manually pumping starts to fill it, but air is being sucked it somehow, or at least bubbles are appearing. I know Jon suffered something similar a few years ago, and he had wrapped teh fuel pipes on some insulation stuff. I need to investigate further...

I have given the coolant systema  good flush, replaced a couple of hoses, cleaned/lubricated all jubilee clips. A fair bit of grot came out but nothing was actually blocked. This is leading to another job, and a couple of core plugs have a slight weep. A sachet of CeLit will hopefully keep the weeps under control until I have more time to sort all the plugs. And that got me thinking. If the head comes off, I will probably get a hefty skim done and may even swap the  cam for one from a later Vitesse or GT6. Tempted by an 18/58 or 35/65. While that is happening, convert it to unleaded and so on. And did I mention I have now got a 4 synchro OD box, all stripped/cleaned and a few bearings etc. It has been restamped stamped 1998, and that would fit with the condition of the internals having been sorted. It has a 16mm mainshaft tip, which aftermarket. And oddly, it has the large synchros on 1-4, but the small synchro from the early boxes for top. Not sure what that is all about. 

That is more than enough to think about for now...

 

 

[Clive]

The order of "significant" jobs has crystallised a little. 

My friend Pete has given the gearbox a decent overhaul, and I have now got a 3.89 diff and a new propshaft. I am also swapping the rear spring to a swingspring constructed from a couple of good used ones.

While teh car is up in the air, I have fitted full sized GT6/Vitesse discs (the 1600 has the slightly smaller spitfire discs) and teh Type12 calipers are being replaced with m16 metric calipers from a ford. I absolutely refuse to use the new Triumph calipers after hearing the experiences others have had. The ones I got are almost identical to Triumph except they have the same lug spacing as the spitfire/herald etc. And I heard a rumour (!) that if the disc was reduced a little in diameter they would fit right on. Nope, with the discs off the caliper fouled the actual hub. And I know the early hubs are chunkier. So a trip to another friend and a play on the lathe had the hubs reshaped. But it was clear that either I was not being brave enough, or I needed to sit the calipers futher out. So I made some new caliper mounts, and it all fits. And then..... I cant fit a steel wheel. At this point I was looking for a sturdy tree and length of rope. 

So I have bought a set of minilitish wheels that do fit. Something I was toying with as I want to make the car "mine" However, the moral of the story is that I should have got GT6/Vitesse p16s and the associated brackets. Or just left the smaller brakes.....

The gearbox will be out of the car today, and the flywheel so I can redrill to accept a better/stronger diaphragm clutch (I have got an AP cover, plate and proper RHP bearing) 

Saturday I hope to get it all bolted back together. 

A winter job is in the pipeline. I have got a 25/65 cam, and intend to take the head off, a hefty skim to get the CR to 9.5, new core plugs, maybe 3 angle valve seats and unleaded inserts while it is apart. Fit the cam, and a the pair of strombergs I have bought. Hoping that will perk the performance up a bit!

Also in the garage I have my rebuilt sprint engine to go in my Dolomite. That is a possible autumn job. And in the spring the Spit will get a bit of bodywork and paint, the 40K hard miles has taken its toll in places. Talking of which, the car behaved impeccably on the recent trip to Slovenia. Managed a new top speed of 127mph on the autobahn, roof down but then I was told to back off by the lady wife. There was still a bit  to go, but genuinely nearing the limit of the H rated tyres. So probably sensible.  Otherwise I had to add about a litre of water on the first day, then it was fine therest of the trip. When I got home about 1/2 litre of oil to top up, but that was well over 2k miles. Nothing else to report, it just works. 

Right, the sun is out, time to pull a gearbox out of a vitesse. 

[thescrapman]

The Strombergs on their own are supposed to perk it up a lot, with nothing else changed.

might be much cheaper to try that first

🙂

[Clive]

On 04/08/2023 at 16:58, thescrapman said:

The Strombergs on their own are supposed to perk it up a lot, with nothing else changed.

might be much cheaper to try that first

🙂

The engine needs a set of core plugs soon. The cam swap is pretty easy with the head removed, and a skim is not expensive. The unleaded conversion may be more than I paid last time I had one done.

In other news, the Vitesse now has the diaphragm cluch kit, plus the fresh later 4 synchro box in it, and new prop. No rear spring yet. 

The later gearbox has a reverse light switchwhich means I can soon use the reverse light sensibly (it currently has a seperate flick switch, which is a PITA). I haven't changed the slave, and the clutch does not feel heavy, so that can stay.

I will potter on with the odds and ends, then take the day off on Wednesday to hopefully get it (more or less) finished.

[Clive]

Update on the Vitesse

The rebuilt 4 syncho OD box, 3.89 diff, swingspring, M16 calipers/Gt6 discs, new prop are all fitted. Tyres swapped over to the minilites. And all is well. I even ran a cable from the gearbox reverse light switch so I can get rid of the dash-mounted switch (1600 Vitesse didsn't have reverse lights, so a manual switch has been added at sometime, next to one for the fog light that must have beed fitted at the same time.)

However the oil light went from not working at all to staying on permanently. Which is far more irritating than no light at all. A swap to a new switch and it now lights up, but goes out instantly the engine is running. Happy with that. Especially as I used the opportunity to remove the extra oil feed to the rocker gear.

I just need to get the new pads bedded it, the pedal feels a tad soft despite fitting a 0.70 master cylinder for the bigger calipers. Definitely no air in the system.

And thats it until after my week of sitting in the sun doing nothing more useful than reading a book and drinking tea and beer.

[Clive]

Just home from teh Silverstone Festival. The whole family had a great time. But it was not without incident!

The Spitfire just did its thing, and worked fine.

The Vitesse was looking to be faultless, but has developed an incontinent clutch master cylinder. Topped up regularly so it got home OK. I have some spare used cylinders, and some new seal kits so no real problems except time.

The Dolomite. Lucy was using this, but rewind to earlier in the week. My handler had taken it oiut shopping and to fill it with fuel. When she got home it was apparently making some odd gurgling noises. I checked, and the water level was low, and then I was told the fuel gauge and indicators were not working. A quick fuse check revealed a fuse that was intact but not carrying current as one end was burnt. This end had the wiring for the Kenlow fan attached. A fresh fuse, let the engine cool a bit, filled with hot water (lots more gurgling) and ran it up. All seemed well, the fan cut in and out. Took it out, all good. 

Tjhursday eve, Lucy picked teh car up to take home in London, and was back in 5 mins. Indicators not working. Fuse had heat damage as before, so I rigged a supply with a fuse direct from the battery for the fan, all seemed well. She got home a let me know it was fine. Friday luchtime they left home, and within 30 mins it was steaming. Fan not working. They bypassed the fuse from the fan circuit, let it cool, topped up and 10 mins later it was worse. Luckily by a pib just before they joined teh M40. I suggested they got recovered back to my place, swapped cars and join us, which they did after a nights sleep in a proper bed in a warm house (we were camping, it was flippin chilly)

Looks like somebody (some bloke at the pub) has broken the thermostat housing, or it was already broken before he touched it. I will never know. I have a spare hopusing so could see if that was the issue. But will have to wait until the weekend as a tad busy with work this week. And next.

[yorkshire_spam]

Bad luck with the Dolomite, hope you get to the bottom of it!

 

[Martins Stag]

Clive we need to get that Sprint engine in it and do it properly? Let me know when you need a hand? 

[Clive]

A quick update. Yesterday I wasn't working (which is unusual this time of year) and Pete popped down so we had a poke around the Dolomite.

Yes, the thermostat housing had lost the "stub" that the header tank connects to. I extracted it from the hose, and it was in a dreadful state. I didn't realise they were ali, I had assumed they were steel. Anyway, popped the housing off, pulled the thermostat (correct type, with a foot) and tested that. All worked fine.

Rummaged in the garage, and found a brass union. Could be some sort of fuel pipe union, no idea, but threaded at both ends. However, it was bigger than 1/2", my largest tap/die. So popped it in a drill, and ran it against my bench grinder as a makeshift lathe. The other end reduced to the same diameter as the original little pipe. Cut a 1/2" thread, then drilled out the housing, tapped and wound the fitting in. I did cut a thread on the pipe end too, to stop it popping off.

Fitted it back on the car with a new gasket, started filling with water aaaaand..... rad bottom hose had a split by the hose clip. The rest of teh hose looks/feels OK, so trimmed it, and bingo, no leaks. And so it was time to start the car up. No drama, it ran fine, no signs of the expected HGF. However, I was unhappy with the Kenlow fan wiring. The terminal on the fusebox was getting VERY hot. And I have a huge dislike for the kenlow controllers. So drained the rad and fitted a OE type sensor in the bottom rad hose. A bit of wring, and used a relay unlike the previous chap. Ran the car up to temp, and the fan now cuts in just below 3/4 on the gauge with no overheating connections. Guess I need to drain it down and fill with coolant rather than plain water, a job for later this week.

Onto the Vitesse with the incontinent clutch master cylinder. A simple swap to the 5/8 brake master cylinder I removed a few weeks ago and job done. All this by 4pm, including extra guests for the Saturday fry-up lunch, many cups of tea and a visit from a neighbour for a chat. Happy days.

 

[Martins Stag]

Fingers crossed that will fix it all.... See you are used to Ford engined cars where things never go wrong, go old Triumphs keep you busy and give you a real challenge.... 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Martins Stag

[Clive]

Today I had a go at the Vitesse. I have bought some used, but OEM fuel pumps from a yamaha motor bike, about 120bhp so should work well.

Main issue is that they have 10mm inlet and out, so made some adaptors but cutting lengths of 6 8 and 10mm copper tube and soldering together. Fitted up next to the fuel tank, wired in and once I had primed the pump (amusingly by blowing into the tank filler with the carb feed disconnected) it pumped beautifully, and they are a lovely low pressure pump. Nice and quiet too. I had given teh points a reface with some fine emery paper, but I am impessed so far. I then re routed teh engine bay peipework, and removed the mechanical fuel pump. That should help keep teh fuel system rather cooler. A 4mm thick (what I had) ali plate was cut to blank the fuel pump hole. 

All runs nicely, though no chance to thoroughly test yet. So far it is looking good.

[Tim Bancroft]

The Vitesse is getting fairly modified!!!!

[Clive]

Nothing that isn't bolt-on! 

Ah, I hadn't mentioned the issues. Jon (the PO) had been having issues with fuel vapourisation for a while. Plus teh car took an age to start unless you manually primed the fuel. 

Last week we popped to London in the Vitesse, all fine except when we came off the M25 and had to wait at a roundabout. 2 mins later the car conked out, symptoms of running out of fuel (gauge was nearly on the red) Chucked the spare gallon in, manually pumped the fuel and off we went. 500 yards, next roundabout, dead as a dodo. Got out, fuel was bubbling in the pump, which was very hot. I poured a litre of water over the pump, primed, and we were then OK.

I am hoping this little electric pump will do the business. If so, I will fit the same to the dolly and still have a spare (to carry on whatever trip we are on)

[Nick Jones]

I think you’ll find it’s sorted now. It might still get a bit crabby in traffic on hot days due to hot carbs but shouldn’t conk out entirely.

[Nick Jones]

Pump similar to this?

https://motorcyclepartswarehouse.co.uk/replacement-fuel-pump-for-yamaha-yzf-r600-xv535-virago-more.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw6p-oBhAYEiwAgg2Pgtkl6Z1y7F0ykJ7GWlb75IczTGSefDVFMCg5mvuYTyV9qxhnFUpbfhoCW-YQAvD_BwE

[Tim Bancroft]

Clive, how about putting some heatshields between the carbs and the exhaust manifold?

[Clive]

4 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Pump similar to this?

https://motorcyclepartswarehouse.co.uk/replacement-fuel-pump-for-yamaha-yzf-r600-xv535-virago-more.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw6p-oBhAYEiwAgg2Pgtkl6Z1y7F0ykJ7GWlb75IczTGSefDVFMCg5mvuYTyV9qxhnFUpbfhoCW-YQAvD_BwE

Exactly the same. Except I got 3 used ones for £30 from a bike breaker, all genuine OEM pumps. Once primed, they are very quiet. And nice low pressure. 

37 minutes ago, Tim Bancroft said:

Clive, how about putting some heatshields between the carbs and the exhaust manifold?

When I fit the Strombergs I will go exactly that.

The car is now in London. Molly has borrowed it, and left an unwell MX5 on our drive. (Big end gone, a common issue on the mk3 cars. Decision is now repair or sell the car as a fixer upper. TBA when we get back off our hols)

[Clive]

It has been a while.

The garage has been shifted around. The Singer and Spitfire are in lockups to get them out of the way. The Vitesse has returned, and Molly has bought another car. The MX5 is now ours, and will get the engine rebuilt when time allows.

However, the Triumph news is that the Dolomite is now engineless, having put my DIY mobile axle stands to good use. In fact, more than engineless. Subframe was dropped out, along with all the front suspension, engine and box. 

Next job is to take the box, then engine off. Then swap the rack for the excellent recon one I bought from the TDC. The steering shaft and joints will need replacing, the ones off my Toledo were all newish and good, so will fit them. I also have some adjustable shocks and uprated front springs. Sadly Spax shocks, but it was either those or Gaz, and these came along from  chappie in the TDC.  More as it happens....