Trifire Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I was using my 13/60 Herald to get to work the other day (60 mile round trip) when all of a sudden it stops. I check for a spark, nothing at the cylinder but a good spark at the distributor. I have a lumeination optical ignition, which I have only done about 3K miles on, so I suspect that is where the problem lies. I call the AA man out and he seems to think after a bit of testing of the coil (it is very warm)that I have not got the correct coil fitted and should of fitted an elctronic ignition coil. So we make our way to a near by auto factors and I purchase the said coil. After it is fitted it still won't fire and I am recoverd home.Does anyone know if he is right, should I exchange the new coil for an OE, it did run ok until then or change back to points ?Any pointers in the right direction would be gratefully receieved.CheersSam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think you need a new AA man. If you are getting a good spark at the distributor then your electronic ignition and coil are working just fine. What is not working fine is the either the rotor arm or the distributor cap. As you lost all cylinders at the same time, my money is on the rotor arm.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifire Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 The car had been serviced less than 200 miles ago with all new, distributor,leads ,plugs and a rotor arm. I still had the old leads and dizzy in the boot which he tried after damaging the brush. I cleaned up the rotor, perhaps thats dodgy and needs replacing.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Agree with Nick, I had three go , inside a month, all brand new, but are your plug leads OK, no breaking doon,!!! no cracks, put a battery meter frae the rotor arm, to battery, if you getting ..volts, then its gone, put a ohhm meter on rotor arm, and an earth, if its reading ohmms , then its gone, done both, as some times volts does nae show up as well, if its ..just going.. look at these plug leads, AA man could nae get it going, , but ..we did.. in the end,all cracked , so taped up to get homeMarcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Paterson Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Even though I have fitted the new, more expensive, but apparently better quality rotor arm to my Spitty, I still have a total of 4 rotor arms in the car (one of the more expensive red ones and 2 of the old riveted ones).My record for a new rotor arm failing (riveted type) is half a mile!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Although I have been completely rotor arm free for several years now, I still bear mental scars caused by repeated rotor arm failures. I had one (new) that would allow the engine run for about 6 miles before stopping play, then recover when all had cooled - I finished up in the same layby about 4 times in one week on my way home from work. Turned out to be the distributor shaft warming up, expanding and opening a small crack in the rotor - sending the spark to earth. The cooler temperatures and stone cold engine in the morning meant that I could get to work before this happened. Took me far too long to twig the problem as the rotor arm was new and therefore considered good (I was younger and stupider then!). Once I had worked it out and bought more new ones I continued to have frequent random failures until I finally rescued a mangy old one from a scrapper - that was fine!So telling me your rotor arm was nearly new will just make me think it is even more likely to blame :)NickEdit: Ironically, electronic ignitions make rotor arm/cap/lead failure more likely as the higher voltages produced find any weaknesses...... three cheers for EDIS and coilpacks ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbodger Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm using a Marina rotor arm ground down a bit to fit and with the dizzie timing altered to suit the different arm shape ...purely because I had one lying about and it was olde decent Lucas stock, I've got a few hanging around in the shed from years ago!It's contact is a shorter one that a 'proper' Vitesse one but nevertheless it works and works well.....I put it in in desperation having had one after another of the new stock lucas ones fail. Since it's been in there's been no random misfires and breakdowns.The coil has nothing to do with it-the AA man clearly did not understand how the system works..... Wether there's electronic ignition or points/condenser doing the switching, the voltage in and out of the coil will be the same: 12v in and whatever your particular coil chucks out, irrespective of what your circuit interupter is. The only way to get more voltage out of the coil is to either increase the voltage in or increase the number of secondary windings- neither of which can be achieved by using electronic ignition! Coil condition is easy to check- 3 ohm resistance for a normal one, around 1.5 ohms for a ballasted one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 How do you actually tell if a rotor arm has failed? What're the things to look out for? I know on a dizzy cap it can be the connections oxidising (happened a few times on my Herald), or if the dizzy shaft is worn the rotor arm can eat the internal connections, but never really know what to look for on rotor arms. I've got a fair few kicking about, although unfortunately many don't have applications or part numbers printed on the packaging or arms themselves. Most are Unipart ones, a few Lucas and a few Delco bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Jonny_Jimbo wrote:How do you actually tell if a rotor arm has failed? If it's made from shiny black plastic with a single brass rivet, it's probably failed....Seriously though, the cheap rotor arms use carbon as a filler in the plastic. Carbon is not known for it's insulating properties, so you have a highly conductive powder suspended in the non-conductive plastic. Stick a fat spark through that, and it will often find the easiest path to ground is across the (supposed) insulator. Electronic ignition provides a fatter spark, so unsurprisingly failures are more likely. You can sometimes observe track marks in the insulator, slightly dull dark grey lines, where the spark has jumped. But even if there are no visible marks, the rotor arm can still be at fault.The more recent replacement rotor arms, either dull black, red or blue, do not use carbon as a filler.Cheers,Bill.Cheers,Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifire Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thank you for all the advice.Rotor arm it was,I put a new one on and it fired straight away. I guess I was blinkered in thinking it was the electronic box of tricks when I was stuck by the roadside, in a hurry etc. But the AA man should of picked it up, then again it was a new rotor arm.You can't beat this Forum for help, support, experience and advice , thank you again chaps.Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Doug_P wrote:Even though I have fitted the new, more expensive, but apparently better quality rotor arm to my Spitty, I still have a total of 4 rotor arms in the car (one of the more expensive red ones and 2 of the old riveted ones).My record for a new rotor arm failing (riveted type) is half a mile!!!Doug , can beat that 1/2 mile, !!!it wouldnt work oot of the box !!!!!!Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 old fashioned test that the AA should have done..take off dizzy cap , hold main HT lead 10mm above the rotor arm get someone the crank it up if the spark jumps its earthing thro' the rotor and its stuffed if it doesnt jump its fine Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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