Triumph 1500 Engine rebuild

[Paul B]

Hi i have a spare 1500 engine that i am looking to rebuild over the winter. I have already collected quite a few parts to put into it. Have already got a modified engine presently in my Spitfire.

Has anyone have experience of using "Maxpeeding" steel rods, have seem advertised. Seem a bit cheap to be true. Although some good reviews. Any advice appreciated.

 

[Amy Wade]

9 minutes ago, Paul B said:

Hi i have a spare 1500 engine that i am looking to rebuild over the winter. I have already collected quite a few parts to put into it. Have already got a modified engine presently in my Spitfire.

Has anyone have experience of using "Maxpeeding" steel rods, have seem advertised. Seem a bit cheap to be true. Although some good reviews. Any advice appreciated.

 

I would question the need for upgraded con rods, the 1500 is a big bearing engine and doesn't like high revs, personally, I wouldn't bother, the crank flexes too much, if you want to make an engine which would benefit from internals like that, start with an FD engine from a Mk3 Spitfire, it's a better engine for high revs. The 1500 is a lazier but higher torque engine.

[Batch]

38 minutes ago, Paul B said:

Has anyone have experience of using "Maxpeeding" steel rods, have seem advertised

I have no experience of these rods in a spitfire engine, however I know of several instances of their use in TR engines, in fact my rally TR4 engine has had them fitted for a couple of years with no problems so far. 

Dave

[yorkshire_spam]

@Paul B as per the comments on my blog - very happy with mine. The guy at the tuning place I've used (who also ported and flowed the head for my 1500) says they are great value for money, uses them himself and only fits things like Carrillo if that's what a customer specifies (to him Carrillo are better quality, but not by a big enough margin to justify the cost difference) 

[yorkshire_spam]

48 minutes ago, Amy Wade said:

I would question the need for upgraded con rods, the 1500 is a big bearing engine and doesn't like high revs, personally, I wouldn't bother, the crank flexes too much, if you want to make an engine which would benefit from internals like that, start with an FD engine from a Mk3 Spitfire, it's a better engine for high revs. The 1500 is a lazier but higher torque engine.

In general I agree - but here's the thing that tipped me over the edge in my Spitfire 1500 engine build. The rods I had were in questionable condition - so replacing them seemed sensible. At the time I could get a maxspeeding H beam set for £175, but replacement 146454 Triumph rods were about £70 each and only available to order, not off the shelf. So it was cheaper to use the "upgrade" than replace like for like. 
On getting them I was very pleased and they are significantly lighter than my originals.

[Amy Wade]

2 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

In general I agree - but here's the thing that tipped me over the edge in my Spitfire 1500 engine build. The rods I had were in questionable condition - so replacing them seemed sensible. At the time I could get a maxspeeding H beam set for £175, but replacement 146454 Triumph rods were about £70 each and only available to order, not off the shelf. So it was cheaper to use the "upgrade" than replace like for like. 
On getting them I was very pleased and they are significantly lighter than my originals.

I can understand in your situation however if the originals are in serviceable condition, I think it would be spending for the sake of not wanting the money in your bank account.

[yorkshire_spam]

6 minutes ago, Amy Wade said:

I can understand in your situation however if the originals are in serviceable condition, I think it would be spending for the sake of not wanting the money in your bank account.

Totally valid point. There was very much an element of "vanity build" to my 1500 engine project, I had the money and figured "I'll probably only ever get the chance to build one engine for the Spitfire... now or never". It makes good horsepower and excellent torque across the usable rev range for a 1500, I'm very pleased with it. Would I spend that much again? Moot point... the money is spent and I don't have it to spare these days, so I'm glad I did it when I had the chance. 🙂 

[glang]

Dont forget theres also the value of talking about the bits youve used in the engine build - could get years of enjoyment from that👍

[Tim Bancroft]

My 2.5Pi engine has a set of them fitted. After years of stress and as I want to be able to rev the thing, we fitted a set and have encountered no problem. These coupled with a light flywheel has resulted in a very smooth engine that loves to rev. And as Sam mentions, they were cheaper than trying to buy new std rods...no brainer.

I would think that fitting a set to a 1500 engine makes sense as they are very long stroked, same stroke length as 2500 six cyl rods if I remember correctly.

First things first though, have a good look at ensure adequate oil supply to the front engine bearing...don't they suffer from a degree of oil starvation?

[Clive]

I would suggest that the lightness is a big advantage with the 1500 engine. That long stroke is a bearing killer, the forces are big so lighter rods will help. 

Of course, Vandervell big end (in particular) bearings are a great idea IF you can find some. Which reminds me, I have some which I ought to advertise. (not a sales pitch, honest)

[Batch]

Another aspect to consider is the age of your original conrods, well over the expected life of the engine when originally built 40+ years ago.

I am acutely aware of this as a conrod in the engine of my TR6 made an escape bid whilst travelling up the A1, see the photo. It's the big end which has failed, but cannot say which actual part failed, whilst some stayed in the sump and other bits were scattered across the A1 in Cambridgeshire.

 

[Paul B]

3 hours ago, Amy Wade said:

I would question the need for upgraded con rods, the 1500 is a big bearing engine and doesn't like high revs, personally, I wouldn't bother, the crank flexes too much, if you want to make an engine which would benefit from internals like that, start with an FD engine from a Mk3 Spitfire, it's a better engine for high revs. The 1500 is a lazier but higher torque engine.

Thanks, just had question over quality, that seems to be answered, they are supposed to be quite a bit lighter which would help the stress on the crank etc. All will be lightened and balanced also. Ported cylinder head 10:1 CR TH5 Cam and twin 40 DCOE.

[thescrapman]

14 hours ago, Batch said:

Another aspect to consider is the age of your original conrods, well over the expected life of the engine when originally built 40+ years ago.

I am acutely aware of this as a conrod in the engine of my TR6 made an escape bid whilst travelling up the A1, see the photo. It's the big end which has failed, but cannot say which actual part failed, whilst some stayed in the sump and other bits were scattered across the A1 in Cambridgeshire.

 

Ouch!

ISTR that the max-speeding rods have parallel bolts rather than offset, which is allegedly better. But does mean they only go in upwards, rather than down bores. 

Can anyone confirm?

[yorkshire_spam]

1 hour ago, thescrapman said:

Ouch!

ISTR that the max-speeding rods have parallel bolts rather than offset, which is allegedly better. But does mean they only go in upwards, rather than down bores. 

Can anyone confirm?

Yes, they have parallel bolts, which causes a minor issue with interference with the oil pump casing on a 1500. Mine were fitted from the top though without issue.

[Nick Jones]

15 hours ago, thescrapman said:

Ouch!

ISTR that the max-speeding rods have parallel bolts rather than offset, which is allegedly better. But does mean they only go in upwards, rather than down bores. 

Can anyone confirm?

They cannot go in upwards.  It is definitely the case that they are close fit. I’ve seen reports (one from someone I knew well with direct experience) that on the Vitesse 2L they wouldn’t go down a standard bore but would just go down when bored +0.020”

Otherwise I’ve only heard good things about them and definitely cheaper than having OE ones properly checked and prepared. That said, I’ve always had good service from the OE ones. Same rods used in 1300 large crank, 1500, 2L (except very early ones) and 2.5s

[Tim Bancroft]

Hi Paul,

Maxingspeed rods were for sale on ebay, does one have to go directly to them to purchase?

Good luck with it all.

[yorkshire_spam]

'kin ell. That's a bit more than the £175 I paid them for a set a few years ago!
https://www.maxpeedingrods.co.uk/product/high-performance-triumph-spitfire-1500-4340-en24-chrome-moly-forged-h-beam-connecting-rods-conrod-with-arp-bolts-x4pcs.html
I mean, it's not Carrillo money, but it's not "cheap" either. 

 

[Tim Bancroft]

Sorry Sam, but to be contrary, the price includes the following: rods, big end bolts and bearings

Alternatively:

4 rods:  Rimmer's original at £55 a rod

4 sets of ARP bolts...best I can find is £120 a set

4 big end bearings say £30/set

So £370 against £369 for a set of these...price seems ok to me. 

When we weighed the M'speed roads we found them to be identical within a gram or two of each other. 

[ferny]

9 hours ago, Tim Bancroft said:

Hi Paul,

Maxingspeed rods were for sale on ebay, does one have to go directly to them to purchase?

Good luck with it all.

I've bought a diesel heater for the van directly from them, if you're worried about buying that way.

[Nick Jones]

On 17/11/2023 at 13:34, Tim Bancroft said:

Sorry Sam, but to be contrary, the price includes the following: rods, big end bolts and bearings

Alternatively:

4 rods:  Rimmer's original at £55 a rod

4 sets of ARP bolts...best I can find is £120 a set

4 big end bearings say £30/set

So £370 against £369 for a set of these...price seems ok to me. 

When we weighed the M'speed roads we found them to be identical within a gram or two of each other. 

I don’t think the shells are included Tim. I wouldn’t worry about ARP bolts on standard rods either.  Bolts are less critical with angled split rods and the Triumph ones are nicely dowelled too.

The bolts are much more critical on the M-Speeding rod design partly because they are horizontal split, but more because they are very small - of necessity to get the horizontal split rod down a small bore. 
 

That said, These rods are a very decent and fairly-priced alternative to properly preparing the factory ones. Well under £ 100/ rod….