Herald Stromberg 150

[Pete Lewis]

advance vacuum is generated from under the throttle plate , nothing to do with the manifold vacuum that powers the servo or the vac gauge
what readings do youmsee on the vacuum  gauge at idle  should be around 18 to 21 in,hg
you cant tune a downdraft you can only adust the idle speed and the idle mixture, if the idle is set too high the idle mixture screw will not have much effect,  and needs the idle slowing down to make the ixle circuit start to work

One  most likely  problem is the slow running jet , halfway down the back of the carb is blocked if this is the case it will rev but hates to idle
they are not easy to clean as any poking around will pop any debris inside
the jet body , only to repeat its antics later

if unsure about arcing ,,,, try looking when its dark   there should not be any

[Casper]

Quoted Text

Hi, yes I have a timing light but its hard to see the timing marks so I may need to take off the front grill.

Quoted Text

Its normally necessary to paint a thin line on the actual pulley timing mark with correction fluid or white paint so that its easy to see with the strobe.

The problem is normally finding them!  There are NO timing marks on the perimeter of the pulley.  There is a small, normally invisible, hole on the rear face of the pulley at 1/4 TDC.  Once you have found this hole it is worthwhile marking the perimeter with white paint (Tippex works well).  If you do your sums (Circumference = pi (22/7) x d (116mm), then divide by 360 = 1.012290966 mm) you will find that one degree rotation equates to 1mm.  You are now in a position to make a mark at the required degree of advance for your engine, and you can then set the ignition either using static methods, or with a timing light.  Note that 1200 and 1300 engines have different timing: 15° for 1200 and 9° for 13/60.  These are only starting figures.
C.

[karl1]

Sorry for a late reply but work and things

Any way time for an update....

As said the solex is back on the car and I took the car for he first drive since putting the solex back on.

Well.... all seemed well with a little choke and a beautiful drive for about 4 or 5 miles until she warned up!

I dropped the wife off at work and then went to pull away ... and yes the problem returned... it almost feels as if the car isnt running on all cylinders.

Im having to over rev the engine from start off in order for it to have any power.

My first thought is the coil but that looks new and is made by a branded company.

I tried tuning but this only in sort of increases the revs or decreases the revs but doesnt make the car run any smoother.

Also after adjustment and a quick blip of the throttle the engine note changes again????

I have tried to pull the choke out a little to see if this helps but again only increases the revs and not performance.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Quoted from karl1

I tried tuning but this only in sort of increases the revs or decreases the revs but doesnt make the car run any smoother.

Also after adjustment and a quick blip of the throttle the engine note changes again????

I have tried to pull the choke out a little to see if this helps but again only increases the revs and not performance.

This would indicate to me that the issue is likely to be ignition rather than fuel.

Have you checked for play in the dizzy? Grab the shaft (Oh Matron!) and give it a good wiggle. There should be minimal play (fractions of a mm) at most. Secondly I'd suggest junking off your electronic ignition and revert to points and condenser, and a new rotor arm. Get these from Dizzy Doctor - they are much higher quality than your average eBay crap.

If your shaft has a wobble then it's really a case of get a new dizzy or get your old one rebuilt.

[karl1]

Im just wondering why its was changed to electronic ignition in the first place???

I feel it must also be electric as if it was a fuel problem it wouldn't just go away when warmed up.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

I was thinking more that by changing the choke setting etc you're changing the amount of fuel entering the engine, and that has no effect, so it's not likely to be the issue.

People often fit electronic ignition thinking it's more reliable than points - but it's also harder to diagnose issues with it. When I had electronic ignition on my 2000 (fitted by previous owner if not the owner before) the car would start fine, but when up to temp it would miss fire, run badly and not idle, before completely conking out. I thought it was fuel related too and changed everything on the fuel system, pump, stripped carbs, new fuel lines front to rear, new filters, flushed out the tank etc etc... then following some advice from Ellis Stokes (on here as 'Ellis' I think) I put an old dizzy plate in with points and condenser, adjusted the timing slightly (often needed when swapping between electronic ignition and points), and she fired straight up, ran lovely and smoothly and had no issues at all.

Where are you based? Someone near you may have a spare dizzy or be willing to let you borrow a known good one from their car just to prove the problem one way or the other.

[karl1]

Thanks for your reply!

It does sound very similar to the problems that you had with your 2000.

I have called Triumph grave yard after your good advice about replacing the dizzy and they are going to send me a dizzy this Monday £20 all in.

Dave at Triumph grave yard said also that genuine condensers are also becoming harder to find but said that the condensers in the new electronic dizzy seem to be the main problem. ( If I understood him right? )


So im going to see if I can find a genuine condenser and points.

Weather permitting we shall see next week when pats arrive if all is well......

Thanks again Karl

[karl1]

Is my dizzy cap going to be a side entry for a 1965 1200 saloon?

[Mark Hammond]

Yes, if the original type, but you can have the later sort if you prefer.

Mark

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Order service bits from this guy - they're more expensive than the tat off ebay (unless you can find genuine original bits, which aren't tat), but his products are good. http://www.distributordoctor.com/

I hope you asked them to make sure the dizzy is in good condition before sending too? I had my original one rebuilt by http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/

Which was pretty good service.

[karl1]

lo up date.

I have managed to speak to last owner who knows little about cars and said it doesnt have electronic ignition but old school.

He also went on to say that he did change the points a couple of years ago but couldnt remeber  is he ever changed the condenser.

So maybe the condenser is the course of this problem.

When one arrives  next week I will let you know if this finally solves the problem.

I will kick myself if this is all it is.....

[glang]

Hi Karl, you still havent told us how you got on with checking the timing. Did you find marks or have to paint your own and what result did you get? Also have you tried changing sparkplugs which are another item that can also fail under load/temperature.
As said previously I would recommend doing things in a logical order starting at the simplest/cheapest and crossing them off the list rather than jumping to different possibilities (often suggested with good intentions) as that is the way to madness/poverty

[daver clasper]

On a couple of occasions when car running badly, I would have got to the problem sooner if I had, had a look at the plugs colour/wetness at the time. Just a thought.

[Pete Lewis]

electronic set ups dont have a condenser, there was an artile way back in mag , they cut a cond open to finf it should have about 3mtr of foil it only  had 300mm    thers some clues on dizzy doctor site about crap condensers
old school a fail one would give you an idle but throttle it up an lots of bangs and pops as it stray sparks the plugs and fires hopelessly on load.
th later dodgy ones seem to give very misguided running . with erratic to ok for no reason
had a good few in my area
pete

[karl1]

Well I thought that I would have a look at my dizzy before the second hand unit arrives on Monday.

Something interesting it is not a genuine unit and it also doesn't have the 'Vernier adjuster wheel'?

The gap between the points is about 0.012 ( although parts look new the points look pitted) and it looks very cheaply made. (Chinese maybe? )

I took out the spark plug and found it very sooty and sweep!

The spark plug insistently is a NGK BP6HS I dont know if thats correct or not but anyway I have ordered 4 Champion L87Y copper core plugs.

The points and condenser are Breu that I have got arriving on Monday.

So weather permitting I will fit them on Tuesday

[Mark Hammond]

Well for a start, you have the wrong plugs, which will never help, I think it's unlikely that the distributor is the culprit, pitted points however, again, will never help.  I might suggest that the correct distributor, new, well adjusted points of a known good brand, the correct plugs, of a known good brand, condenser and coil ditto and set the static timing correctly "to the book" is a good basis for a starting point (no pun intended).  I'd set the carburettor as per the book and make running adjustments from there given modern fuel burns hotter than the old 4 star that this car would have been designed for.

Mark

[Paudman]

Quoted from karl1

Well I thought that I would have a look at my dizzy before the second hand unit arrives on Monday.

Something interesting it is not a genuine unit and it also doesn't have the 'Vernier adjuster wheel'?

Can you find any kind of code number stamped anywhere? I know that sellers on the Internet were selling replacement distributors a while back, but they were never originally designed for the Herald and while they'll fit and run, the performance wouldn't be the best.
It's just for curiosity as if you've a replacement on the way, you'll be able to forget the old one and concentrate on getting the newer one running as it should.

[karl1]

After a lot of messing about to what I thought would be a simple job the an original dizzy is finally back in the 1200. 😲

I have set the static timing as follows...

There is a hole in the crankshaft pulley which I understand to be the top dead centre?

I aligned the hole with the points just about to open.. and yep she started up and so did the rain  

So thats as far as I got yesterday!

Next will be the dynamic timing! ( I watched some chap doing his timing on 948 Herald but the video wasnt that clear ). 🤔

Do I put some correctional fluid on the crank shaft pulley hole and make sure its in line when I use my timing light?  (Light connected to number 1 cylinder)

Thank you all again for your help

[Casper]

Quoted Text

Do I put some correctional fluid on the crank shaft pulley hole and make sure its in line when I use my timing light?

Firstly, put the mark on the front rim of the pulley in line with the hole so that its easier to see.  That will be 1/4 tdc.  Also, mark the end of the triangle pointer so that that is clearly visible.  This may be adequate depending on your timing gun (if it is an advance type) but I would also put a mark 1cm before the tdc mark to indicate 10 deg btdc and another 0.5cm further away to indicate 15 deg btdc.  With a normal timing gun set the timing so that the 15 deg mark and the triangle pointer are aligned.  That should give a starting point from which you can experiment for the ideal setting.
C.

[karl1]

Thank you for that clear information

As soon as the weather improves  will give it ago.

Thank you again

[karl1]

Ok timing has now been done and checked both dynamically and statically.

Advance and retard checked and works original dizzy fitte

Mixture set at 1.5 turns from full in.

Went for my first drive in this lovely weather and still the same problem persist.

The car is missing under load.

And then it happened !!!!!!!

The car broke down in the middle of the town (of course).

It was firing at all!!!

After 15 mins of a red face it came back to life.

I think that the previous owner told me that the car had done this to him and he had changed the coil.

[Pete Lewis]

this is a common fault if the coil is wired in reverse polarity  IE it should have with a neg battery earth  the white to the +ve and the dizzy lead to the -ve
runs for a while , dies, you get out kick a few bits and miricales shes starts. only to die again soon.
do double check the coil ign feeds are right way round
then change the coil if all else fails
more strong tea required
and there is no R in the spark plug letters

Pete

[karl1]

Thank you Pete

and I have had that many teas over this car 😀

I dont know if you know but it has been upgraded to an alternator?

[karl1]

Would a faulty coil mean that I would need to keep the choke open a little?
As thats what I have to do!

[Nick Jones]

That might just be an indicator of feeble spark - richer mixture easier to light.

Are the rotor arm and cap definitely good?  Note that new does not equal good, especially in the case of the rotor arm!  If still using points (I'm confused reading the thread!) then check that the little earth lead that links the moving base to the body is there and in good condition.  Missing or faulty causes very intermittent symptoms....

Nick