Mk 1 Suspension - Upgrades?

[thebrookster]

Hi all from rainy Rotterdam (well, Europort really).

I have recently had sourced a set of Stag Hubs/Calipers/Struts/Discs for my Mk1.

Now, aside from the usual brake related stuff, are there any other "upgrades" I should be looking at? Thinking of a Chris Witor order, and have the following thoughts in mind already:

Progressive front springs
New Shocks
Superflex Bushes
Spring Insulators
Shock Gaitors

So, what have people got, or can recommend to me? Bear in mind I like to drive fast

From memory, I have progressive rear springs already fitted? However Rear Shocks may have to be added to the list....

Also, if anyone can list the bushes I require please do, I don't have a manual with me onboard the ship!!

Cheers,

Phil

[TedTaylor]

Give Chris a ring (or e-mail) and tell him what you already have and ask him what he would recommend for your needs.  He will give you an honest opinion and if your present front progressives are OK he will tell you.

Same with all the bushes and other upgrades - he knows his stuff better than the rest of us.

MUT

[thebrookster]

That's my issue Ted, ringing ain't gonna be an option as I work when Chris is open and and am off when he is closed!

AFAIK the current fronts are single rate, hence changing them.

Cheers,

Phil

[Richard B]

Quoted from thebrookster

Also, if anyone can list the bushes I require please do, I don't have a manual with me onboard the ship!!

Have you looked at Chris's website? I recommend LD Parts for the gaiters, not OE but much longer lasting.

Front

Track Control Arm bushes x 2
Dragstrut bushes x 4
Steering Rack clamp bushes x 2
Spring insulator rings 2 x top, 2 x bottom

Do you have a front antiroll barm if so you need some for that.


Rear

Trailing Arm bushes x 4
Diff mount bushes 2 x top, 2 x bottom.
Spring insulator rings 2 x top, 2 x bottom

The jury is still out on rear sub-frame mount bushes.

Do you have lowered rear springs, if so consider camber adjusted shackles from Chris, if not already fitted.


James Shackford may be able to source rear Koni's for a MkI

[TedTaylor]

Quoted from thebrookster

That's my issue Ted, ringing ain't gonna be an option as I work when Chris is open and and am off when he is closed!

AFAIK the current fronts are single rate, hence changing them.

Cheers,

Phil

e-mail him Tim in that case.

MUT

[TedTaylor]

Quoted from Richard B

James Shackford may be able to source rear Koni's for a MkI

And I want ONE Koni front strut insert to go with the single brand new one that came in a box of spares. Still looking after four years!

MUT

[thebrookster]

Cheers guys, def food for thought. I shall do some costing up over the next few days and see how big a dent my bank will be taking  

Quoted from Richard B

James Shackford may be able to source rear Koni's for a MkI

I have seen this guy mentioned many times now, but nowhere have I found details for how to contact him! Can someone please enlighten me?

Cheers,

Phil

[Richard B]

Quoted from thebrookster

I have seen this guy mentioned many times now, but nowhere have I found details for how to contact him! Can someone please enlighten me?

PM sent

Usually he is at Stoneleigh, and most CT driving things RBRR, 10 Countries etc,

[dazzer]

Everyones upgrade will be different depending upon the type and/or hardness of poly bushes or if rubber has been retained used. Also any other mechanical mods.
You can mix and match to great effect.
My rally 2000 which handles absolutely flat but still retains a really comfortable ride uses 1" shorter springs at the rear, with softer blue poly bushes on the trailing arms and the subframe (i beefed the diff mounts up and altered the bushes to suit). I also use the latest subframes with the bean can bushes (these can fail if abused but fine for  normal use). Up front all hard red bushes and standard height springs. With CW track control bush mods. Also solid rack mounts and one of CWs very reasonable priced quick racks. ARB is on stanard mounts if fitted but really transforms the handling.

[FloydP]

Quoted from TedTaylor

And I want ONE Koni front strut insert to go with the single brand new one that came in a box of spares. Still looking after four years!

MUT

I can't help with the front koni, but in a similar vein I'm looking for a single rear koni for mine after one of the used pair I got from eBay got lost in the post.

[dazzer]

For a while i ran in competition with a spax adjustable one side and a kyb the other. Made absolutely no difference that i could detect.

[thebrookster]

And a further question.

What are people's thoughts regarding spring rates between front and back?

Obviously I understand that I over time I can try different rates on the front and rear to find a setup that suits, but what is a good starting point? As far as I know I have uprated 1" lower springs on the rear, though I have yet to determine exactly what the "uprated" actually is, and standard springs on the front.

My immediate thoughts are to get a pair of progressives from Chris for the front, but I am wondering about compatability issues with the rear springs. Would I therefore be better off getting a set of progressives for the rear to match? Or another option Mr Shackford has thrown in the mix is a set of lowered 625lb springs for the rear, which he suggests work well with the rear koni dampers I am getting from him. Would these work with the progressives on the front maybe?

To simplify, same all round vs high rear/prog front vs low rear/high or prog front? What works for you, and just as importantly what doesn't work/should be avoided?

Setup as stands will be superflex bushes all round, koni rear dampers and prob koni fronts as well, prob lowered an inch.

I await your thoughts with interest!

Cheers,

Phil

[josh18]

I would rather some softer springs on the front of mine, as the front seems to transmit more harshness. My rears are pretty stiff in rate I think (some kind of red painted aftermarket ones, and chopped which makes them stiffer still) and it still rides nicely. The rear setup would probably always need to be stiffer in spring rate due to the rear swingarms having more mechanical advantage over the spring than the Mac strut fronts.
I read once that for a fast road car you want it sprung as softly as it can be with out bottoming out. I also read that you should go with a proper sway bar to reduce roll, rather than a compromise like the progressive ones, which are apparently made to suspend the car but also reduce roll. If you can find a sway bar and set of LCA's from an S you could put that in and get flatter cornering with softer low springs.
One other thing i found when i lowered mine was that it rode on the bump stops at the front. This made it terrible to drive. I have since cut the whole end of the cross member off where the bump stops mount and have instead got bump stops on the shock strut. Even though it's pretty low I've never felt it bottom since, though Id like to see if I could get away with some softer springs to improve the ride.
Tyre pressures can help a lot too, something that's easy to play with and can make a big difference in ride/ handling.
Last thing, wheel allignment can make it feel much better than standard too, but it's worth doing some reading up on
Cheers
Josh

[Jonny-Jimbo]

As a rule when deciding spring rates, a stiffer front end will promote understeer and a stiffer rear end will promote oversteer - However as Josh said, the physical rate of the spring is not the same as the fitted length due to leverage of the arms and also how compressed they are when fitted.

[GT6 M]

Not only that, but the inclination of the springs
hence why a GT can be a decent ride wid 600LBs up front { 200 STD }
but a Saloon wouldnt if increased by same amount.

Really need to  match yer shocks to springs for best results
as a stiffer spring may just be too much for the OE shocker

Ive found the adjustable type to be best for me, as can slacken or stiffen at a click if needs be

M

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Yup, it's usually pretty basic mathematics; when perpendicular to the axle travel in the vertical direction, the spring rate is near to what is quoted (not all springs actually are what they say), at 45 degrees it will be nominally half, and at horizontal (unless pushrods etc are used) it will be effectively zero.

[thebrookster]

Interesting thoughts here. I have been scratting away at my memory, and I suspect the rear springs I have are not progressive after all, but more likely the same red springs Josh has mentioned. Possibly the 425lbers that Chris sells?

I think I am down to two options, keep the current rears and fit prog fronts, or try these 625lbers on the rear with prog fronts. I guess it will be dependant on actually identifying what I have on the rear, and making my mind up at that point.

I appreciate the comments re ARB, and whilst I can see the plus points I am still not convinced it is a route I want to go down. I have seen many mixed opinions on having these vs not, so shall try the not first.

Cheers guys,  all that is left is to buy springs, front dampers and I think some new brake lines and I will be pretty much ready to install when I get back home (or maybe after the next trip, working outside in January gets less appealing the older I get!).

Phil

[Nick Jones]

The progressive front springs that Chris sells work well and tend to reduce roll a bit on their own.  I used them with KYB inserts, which were way better than the nearly new Munroe inserts that were in there before.  May also help to re-profile your bump stops a little.  I did end up fitting an ARB too.

Dunno what springs mine had on the back - red painted and lower than standard.  Also fitted KYB dampers on the rear (same as TR7?).

Nick

[thebrookster]

Front dampers of the Koni variety.

I see Rimmers have an Xmas sale on with these reduced to 220 quid (Inc. Tax), is this a good price? I am trying to compare with elsewhere, but being thwarted by a slow internet signal!

Cheers,

Phil

[Richard B]

I would say that is a good price.