GTRoger Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Just read about the availability of "normal" petrol in Europe and it seems that E10 is becoming the standard in many countries. Although proper petrol is still available (RON 95 or higher) you have to be careful before you fill up. E10 is not suitable for our classic cars, it kills rubber hoses and seals! I've been told that especially in France it's difficult to find good quality petrol. So you have been warned, I'll take some fuel saver stuff with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 E10 is also (even) more prone to vaporisation in carb'd vehicles and the ethanol content is high enough to lean the mixture slightly.My own experiences also suggest that buying it from small petrol stations in rural France is risky due to possible old age and high water content...... The rural French mostly drive diesels.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonnett Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 We've been to France twice this year and found that 98RON is available from most supermarket petrol stations but we never saw it in the roadside petrol stations in rural areas. In those cases, I believe they are using the old 98 pumps for E10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 And this darn E stuff is also causing havoc wid the enviromentsome thing the greenies dont want ye to consider,!!!!M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Flexney Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Aaaaahhhh doooom and gloooombest bring Brexit forward so we can go backwards quicker.God save good old 4 star leaded petrol!! (bursts into patriotic song) or you could just install neoprane seals and everything is fine, modern cars seem to survive on E10 why should a Triumph not?Or is it just the "modern" Triumphs that have problems? But again they are not "proper Triumphs are they 😉 Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Quoted from Andy Flexney Aaaaahhhh doooom and gloooommodern cars seem to survive on E10 why should a Triumph not?Andy Because the modern cars are designed for it obviously 😉. Whereas the Triumphs were not.Equally obviously it is (mostly) possible to tweak your Triumphs to be more or less unaffected, though resolving vaporisation issues and dealing with the destabilising effects E10 has on ancient fossilized hydrocarbon crud deposits can involve a fair amount of effort.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1968Vitesse25 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Quoted from Andy Flexney Aaaaahhhh doooom and gloooombest bring Brexit forward so we can go backwards quicker.God save good old 4 star leaded petrol!! (bursts into patriotic song) or you could just install neoprane seals and everything is fine, modern cars seem to survive on E10 why should a Triumph not?Or is it just the "modern" Triumphs that have problems? But again they are not "proper Triumphs are they 😉 Andy Your modern car will have a plastic fuel tank, all synthetic seals and no brass in it's fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Quoted from Nick Jones Because the modern cars are designed for it obviously 😉. Whereas the Triumphs were not.Equally obviously it is (mostly) possible to tweak your Triumphs to be more or less unaffected, though resolving vaporisation issues and dealing with the destabilising effects E10 has on ancient fossilized hydrocarbon crud deposits can involve a fair amount of effort.Nick HiyaActually the seals, rubber and all are the least of your worries.The main issue is that in order to reduce emissions and consumption etc E10 (and in France the newest flavour is E20) has been engineered to run with modern engines. Or perhaps the other way around, but in any case our engines are not engineered for this.Modern fuels are slow burning and rely on compression to burn. With old engines the compression is possibly not high enough to have a clean burning. It also means that the fuel is still burning by the time you reach exhaust stroke and quite a bit of the energy is wasted. To compound this the ethanol has a lower "energy" value than petrol, it's caloric value is only 2/3rds of petrol. To put it broadly the more Ethanol the less punch per litre.This is the most noticeable with the older engines, a relative recent engine such as in a Stag, TR7 etc should be able to coop, my vanguard engines or the pre-war iron does certainly not.Other issue with Ethanol is that it is not stable in time, it will separate and the ethanol will, as already mentioned, absorb moisture from the air. this is why in UK as an example you will find more ethanol in fuels from stations that have a bigger turn over and less in remote areas. As the manufacturers are requested to have a certain ratio of ethanol/ fuel of their overall sales they try to push it in more crowded areas where the fuel consumption is higher and it is less likely to deteriorate and avoid bad press or issues. Ethanol however does also have its advantages, the mixture burns with less noxious gases produced and it is sustainable. Although with the world population on the rise I wonder how much of our food we really can afford to be converted into go-go juice. Bring on MAd MAx!D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfrid Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 In most - but not all - areas of the UK Esso Supreme contains no ethanol, so I grasp the expense nettle and use it in both the TR4 and Herald 12/50. I check with Esso at intervals to make sure that this is still the caseDerek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Still, looking on the bright side they will start phasing all petrol out from 2040 (or sooner in some European Countries) so we won't have that worry to contend with anymore! I wonder how many times and for just how long you would have to stop and charge an electric vehicle up for to do a 10CR? Might end up taking 10 days instead of 4, that's progress I suppose. Although there will undoubtedly be exemptions for 'historic vehicles', just how long will people carry on producing and selling the stuff for when they're no longer making a decent profit? Perhaps we will end up having to convert our cars to 'Bendix Power' or just consign them to being display only items like silly number plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I wonder if there might be a market for 'Home Brew'? That could be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidescreen Ben Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I can confirm E10 and even "Super10" does not agree with Triumphs. I put half a tank in by mistake in rural Germany and we had a very unhappy TR3 for a day and a half on the Paris-Prague Rally (a little warm up event for the 10CR 😉 ).It's very easy to be fooled by unfamiliar pumps particularly when relived to find a petrol pump in foreign parts! I have stuck to Shell V-power or BP Ultimate since then and have not even been tempted by 100 RON that is available on the continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I have been using only 100 or 102 RON in my Triumphs since it became available (around 2004), and they still run great on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Quoted from Sidescreen Ben I can confirm E10 and even "Super10" does not agree with Triumphs. I put half a tank in by mistake in rural Germany and we had a very unhappy TR3 for a day and a half on the Paris-Prague Rally (a little warm up event for the 10CR 😉 ).It's very easy to be fooled by unfamiliar pumps particularly when relived to find a petrol pump in foreign parts! I have stuck to Shell V-power or BP Ultimate since then and have not even been tempted by 100 RON that is available on the continent. The 102 Aral fuel was very good a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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