MX5 seats in a Spitfire

[Ian Perry]

I'm sure I have read - more than once - that MX5 seats are a popular upgrade in Spitfires. So I bought a pair (very cheap, thankfully!)…

But they seem a bit wide. The space between the tunnel and sills is quite narrow, I acknowledge, but the only way these seats will fit is if they are mounted fairly high up, in which case not only will my shiny bonce be rammed hard up against the headlining with the hardtop on, but it'll probably stick up over the windscreen when going topless.

What will be slightly inconvenient for me, will be impossible for Anthony on the 2020 RBRR, as he is taller than me!

Am I missing something obvious? 

[Taylor bright]

There was many mx5 seat varieties can hi show us which ones you have if it's the same as mine I'll send a photo of my slightly bodgy mounting if not someone else will probably be able to enlighten you

[Ian Perry]

Taylor, hi and thanks for replying. I don't have a photo at the moment, but I'll take one hopefully tomorrow and post it.

The seats are a design with a separate head restraint, not the (IMO uglier) "tombstone" style ones with an integral head restraint. The mounting points for runners seem to be the right spacing for the Spitfire floor, but - again - I'll confirm that once I get back to the workshop tomorrow.

Cheers

[thescrapman]

The tombstone are a better fit in a Spitfire

the headrest ones are better in a TR or a big saloon.

 

[Nick Jones]

Son Chris has the Mk1 separate head-rest version in his MkIV.  They're a tight fit and even with a certain amount of trimming of seat corners and "massage" of floor pan corners you don't get much fore/aft travel.  More seriously, they are a bit high.  It is true that we are both tall, myself at 6'3" and Chris a couple of inches less, with the height difference being in the legs, but even so, sunvisors are pretty much useless, we just stop slouching to get the same effect!

He's googling "MX-5 foam-ectomy" right now (no, really, he is!)

I'm also considering a pair of the tombstone ones for my GT6, but unless we can find a way to get them lower, another plan will be needed

[chunky63]

I've bought a pair of heated leather mk2.5 MX5 seats to fit into my GT6. I took the lead from this online video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlbF6a0vkxw

...with the amalgamation of the GT6 frames and MX5 frame/foams it should all come together quite nicely.

I plan on retrimming the centre panels with perforated vinyl from Woolies to make them look a bit like GT6 seats

https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/category/109/embossed

Famous last words :-)

[Tim Bancroft]

I understand the economics and comfort of fitting MX5 seats, but IMO they look naff as invariably occupants look like they are riding on the car instead of being in the car.

I rebuilt a set of late mk2 GT6 seats last year and was very pleased with the results, yes, the wallet took a battering. I love the seating position offered by GT6s and Spits, this could be because I am relatively short at 5' 8''...

 

Have a look at the Park Lane Classics site...reasonable prices.

http://www.parklaneclassics.co.uk

[RobPearce]

I agree with Tim - MX5 seats always look wrong in a Spitfire or GT6 to me. The originals are fairly comfortable if in good condition, although I have upgraded Toby from his (badly broken) original Mk3 seats to the more comfortable Mk4 ones.

[Ian Perry]

Thanks all, hmmm, this is all starting to fit together! Thankfully I didn't pay a lot for the seats (in fact two sets of generic runners at £35 and some pence cost more than I paid for the seats themselves...).

Aesthetically, I think the tombstone seats look wrong in any car, I think they are hideous! The seats I have, I thought, were much more in keeping, but I am definitely unhappy with the height/width. If they work better in the big saloons, I'll try a cheeky advert over in that part of the website :-)

The problem with the original seats is … the car didn't come with any. And the prices I've seen so far, for decent s/h seats, are a bit on the steep side. Hence looking for an alternative/aftermarket option. I would quite happily put a pair of generic black buckets in, but for the fact that come RBRR2020, we'll want something that the co-driver can recline and sleep in.

[Ian Perry]

Ref my last, and breathing some life back into this topic (I blew at a massive heap of dust in the corner of the workshop and found a Spitfire under it)...

I've found some pics of the seats I had bought wayyy back when, will try to attach when I finish blethering.

I have a pair of original seats now, though they're in very poor condition with rust in the frames, sagging foam and split vinyl. Having fitted one in the car, I'm not impressed as the backrest is very short and the head-restraint is level with my shoulder-blades (I'm only 5'9" by the way) so not ideal. I also find myself sitting quite high up even so, my head is at the windscreen top rail level. I was planning to put 3-point harnesses in, and these seats/head restraints are not compatible - I would prefer something that gives an aperture between the backrest and head restraint to feed the harnesses through. And finally the recline mechanism is seized, which makes them pretty pointless for the RBRR..

So. help, please! I would consider after-market bucket seats as I mentioned further up the thread, but we'll need something capable of being slept in for the RBRR. So, if not the MR2 seats, what? 

[Ian Perry]

MX5 seats, I meant... 

[RobPearce]

I've done RBRR five times in a Mk3 GT6 with original seats. They recline (a bit!) but have short backs and no headrests. I've not found it to be a big problem - certainly easier to sleep in than the TR7 seats that recline just enough to reveal the bit of frame that digs painfully into your lower back. Take a few pillows for the passenger to pad the seat out with.

Of course, if you really want to be able to sleep on the RBRR then you should do it as a team of three in a 2500S.

[Ian Perry]

Thanks Rob.

We're all different!

The seats I have are not in a usable condition - and I can't get at all comfortable in them, either for driving or sleeping, which gives me little confidence that a better condition pair of OEM seats would be any better. Anthony is also a couple of inches taller than me, so the height issue will only be worse for him. Hence looking elsewhere for options.

And sadly I don't have a 2500S in my back pocket, either - more's the pity!

[Ian Perry]

Mildly amusingly, the co-driver's seat from my rally/hillclimb car (a MG ZR) fits surprisingly well. I wonder...

 

[Ian Perry]

Update... (just in case anyone really is interested!)

I picked up a couple of (thankfully cheap) MX5 Mk1 tombstone seats, with a view to either doing a Frankenstein with an "adjustable head restraint" back, or simply butchering the backrest to feed the belts through. And yes, they are too high, so I'm leaning more towards the comment from Tim in January about sitting "on" rather than "in" the car.

There's also the problem that with a rollover bar in place, the seats don't really recline either! The bar is shaped to clear the soft-top and that means it encroaches heavily into the space for the seat to recline into. 

Then someone offered me a pair of rather retro style bucket seats which are slim enough to fit, sit quite low and look IMO perfectly acceptable in the car. The lack of any option to recline is a bit of a disappointment - but to be fair even the original seats are restricted by the rollover bar anyway.

The other issue is leg-room, none of my growing collection of seats will go back very far - again due to the rollover bar. But TBH I am reluctant to take that out...

[PeteStupps]

Quoted from Ian Perry-

Update... (just in case anyone really is interested!)

I'm interested! I think lots of us are, it's just easier to watch silently than get involved :)

I think you're snookered in terms of sleeping comfortably, basically.

I did the last RBRR in my mk3 Spit, and fitted a reclining mk4 passenger seat (after refurbing it), but kept the original 'bucket' seat for driving. Wasn't too fussed about how it looked for that weekend. 

Yes the mk4 seat headrest is at shoulder height but when fully reclined, I could lie almost horizontally and moderately comfortable. Still didn't sleep very well, noisy bloody cars you know! 

I did however chat to a team in a Spit with a roll-over bar and asked how they managed. The co-driver said they had a big pillow which he somehow curled up into and it worked alright. I wonder if those bucket seats of yours might be a bit restrictive for anything like that though. 

I suppose my main message is, consider having different seats for driving and sleeping purposes. I underestimated how difficult it is to sleep in a Spitfire, and overestimated how long I could cope without a bit of kip. 

Pete

[Ian Perry]

Hi Pete, and thank you very much for such a positive response! :-)

I am perfectly happy with the idea of different seats for each side of the car (in my old road-rallying days, it was quite common to see cars with different seats for driver and navigator, and indeed some itinerant navigators would take their own preferred seat with them from car to car!!). The problem is in finding a suitable seat for the passenger/co-driver/navigator!!

I can't see how ANY seat will recline - or really go back far enough - with the rollover bar in place. A wider bar would help and might even be possible, as (short term at least**) it won't have a soft-top, so no need to have a bar that makes room for the mechanism. So if I can find a suitable bar and fit that instead, then apply some abuse to the OEM passenger seat to get the recline mechanism to work... 

(** for the time being it has a Targa top made from a manky steel hardtop, so no need/desire for a soft-top) ..

[sparky_spit]

If it helps....  I have 1500 reclining seats in a MK3 which is fitted with a Safety Devices roll bar. I've modified the head rests so that they pull out quite easily. I can then move the seat forward on its runners so that the backrest can recline almost horizontally and then put the head rest back in so that the roll bar diagonal upright sits between the backrest and headrest. Perfect for long stints on the 10CR or sleeping in a layby. The only downside is if you wake suddenly and hit your head on the ironwork! Also, I have a build-it-yourself hood frame (Elise style) as the standard one won't fit with the roll bar fitted, and it's not the most elegant of things...

 

[Ian Perry]

Latest news - I've bought and will be fitting (hopefully tomorrow) a replacement rollover bar that is wider (the initial rollover bar is indented to clear the soft top, but the car won't for the time being be running a soft top so that's not really necessary). Initial trial fitting shows that the seats - any seats - will go back further and should be enough to achieve a comfortable driving position for the lanky one (Anthony) and also the shortar$e (me).

Thanks for the thought, Michael, I don't know what we'll actually settle on (pun ) but if we do end up with a reclining seat, I'm hopeful that it'll now go back far enough to allow some sleeping :-) 

 

In other news, we got the engine running last weekend! It sounds amazingly healthy, with good oil pressure and no nasty noises vibrations - and the carbs even seem to be close to set up! 

 

[Tim Bancroft]

Great to hear that the car is running, Ian.

What next to be done to her? Has it got overdrive?

My GT6 has a roll over bar fitted and it is a struggle to get the seats to recline with them fitted, if I use the GT6 next year for the RBRR I will take the roll over bar out of the car.

Just to think, we should have been driving up to Scotland at this point!

[Ian Perry]

Hi Tim, and thank you - yes, Anthony and I were dancing round the workshop to the tune of the OHV Chunter!

The rollover bar is in, the seats are sitting there loose at present but hopefully Anthony will come over at some point soon and we'll work out how much I need to shorten him to fit in.

Jobs left - the main one is to get the front end fitted - the original is rotten in the area of the "shelf" that mounts the OS hinge bar, and I picked up a NOS GRP bonnet for a song, so you can see where this is going! One of the other guys in the workshop is a GRP man (he works on small aircraft and gliders for a living) and I'll recruit him to help me fettle this. Then a few minor jobs to get the car on the road, like rewiring the headlights through relays, and fitting a replacement radiator that actually has fins attached to the tubes.

The OEM gearbox is just a 4-speeder, but I picked up a "kit" last year of an OD gearbox, prop, rear GB mount and speedo drive. So once the car is actually running, we'll look at fitting/testing the OD box. I want to get the car on the road first so at least we can start to drive it...

Re the weekend - yes, it's been a funny year all round. I'm a cricket club fixture secretary, so I spent the winter/spring crafting an exciting fixture list, lots of clubs we haven't played before, only to see it all collapse like a card house in a hurricane. I stacked shelves at night at Tesco for 4 months backfilling for sick/isolating staff, was properly mashed by a lorry, various family issues (don't get me started on daughters...). But the postponement of the RBRR, while terribly frustrating for everyone, has also opened up the possibility of our getting past Shap Fell next year!

[Ian Perry]

PS - I'm also working on a prototype 'targa' roof for the Spitfire, based on a ratty steel hardtop I used to help hold the car together when I was doing the sills (it was largely successful in that role, until I discovered how much rot there was in the screen pillars too - o mie stelle - i migliori piani di topi e uomini! ) 

[Ian Perry]

Time for another update - in the faint hope someone else is still interested!

 

It moves! In a fit of energy, hope and insanity I finally got the car off the axle stands and down onto some wheels (a set of Dolomite wheels with OK-ish tyres, the Spitz tyres will get cleaned up and new rubber put on before they go on the car). I then started it, ran it out of the workshop and turned it round in the yard, before driving back in to park back in its next but facing the other way.

I would have gone further - at least up the lane to where it joins the public road and back - but the front end is only very loosely dropped in, and there are no headlights, seats or belts at the moment...   Discretion is definitely the better part of valour!

But the clutch take-up is smooth and there were no immediate nasty noises from the gearbox or diff.  

Still waiting for Anthony to find his way back to the workshop (crashing back into Tier 3 means it'll be a while) so we can play with seating positions, but I suspect the answer is to put the driver's seat on runners and simply mount the passenger seat on the floor as far back as possible.

Also trying to tidy the bodywork up a bit while I'm about it...

[Ian Perry]

And another update, in case anyone really is that interested :-)

Seats - it now has some! Last autumn I managed to pick up a pair of period after-market (not prominently branded) bucket seats with head restraints, which actually fit really nicely. I modified the Spitfire seat mounts/runners, welding two lengths of right angle on and the seats bolt onto the top surface of the angle. I deliberately lined the seats up slightly off-line - the back is tighter against the centre tunnel, so that the seats clear the inside edge of the rollover bar, and the driver's feet actually point in vaguely the direction of the pedals! It's not enough of a twist - I hope - to be uncomfortable though. The driving position feels OK to me, but the acid test will be a longer test than just sitting in there. 

Headlights - The original metal bowls were a bit tatty and the 'nuts' for the adjusters had disintegrated, so I bought a pair of aftermarket plastic bowls - mistake. They went in OK, but the chrome rings were a heck of a fight and the whole thing didn't line up nicely with the alloy cowls, so in the end I found some nuts to fir the adjuster screws, and broke out the welder. It's all assembled nicely and I put relays in at the same time (mounted on the side of the N/S alloy air 'scoop' panel in front of the radiator). 

Paint - it has some! although the headlights episode means there's some touching up to do now :-(  It isn't white any more...