2007 route

[curtis]

There was a bit of irony in there!! But I think it's obvious where my preference is ;D

Anyway if the decision is to come anywhere near here,I'll be pleased to help if I can.

Curtis

[Raider]

The problem is the organiser

I LOVE DRIVING! :P (and driving, and driving, and driving ........)

One point of view is that it's already got a bit soft with two overnight halts - that can't be right on a CT event surely :(


Still, we'll see if we can accomodate both points of view.

[v8dean]

[quote by=Raider link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1131902691,s=26 date=1132788187]One point of view is that it's already got a bit soft with two overnight halts - that can't be right on a CT event surely :([/quote]

Not right but very enjoyable!

Dean.

[don cook1]

Very enjoyable Dean, wouldn't miss the social side for anything...where's my room...

[James]

[quote by=Raider link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1131902691,s=26 date=1132788187]The problem is the organiser

I LOVE DRIVING! :P (and driving, and driving, and driving ........)

One point of view is that it's already got a bit soft with two overnight halts - that can't be right on a CT event surely :(


Still, we'll see if we can accomodate both points of view.[/quote]

Everyone loves driving - but who actually enjoys driving half asleep? Not only is it a thoroughly nasty thing to do - you put yourself, your co-drivers and your car at risk doing so if it's _too_ extreme.

We already have one event where we drive close to the margin like this - do we need another one - especially when there are even more fantastic roads to drive hard on (which you can't do half asleep), even more fantastic scenery to see (in the daylight) and on top of that loads of fantastic cuisine, culture and drink to take in also.

The RBRR works because none of us are really all that bothered driving past places - and we know we could easily go visit all these locations if we really wanted. It costs very little so no one minds blasting past somewhere we could go anyway.

On no way should it be turned in to a tour - but I'd like to get back and say I experienced 10 countries rather than just mindlessly driving through them.

[Nigel]

I very much agree with James
I like driving a lot also, I think if we were driving round in brand new cars then the 10 countries would be a whole lot easier.
But add in the fact that many of the cars are 30 to 40 years old adds enough of a challenge maybe fine if you have a stonking 5ltr TR8 with loads of new shiny bits
but if you have a standard spitfire or herald keeping up may pose a problem.
Maybe there could be two classes or two routes one hard with loads of driving for the hairy chested boys.
And one for those who prefer a more leisurely run taking in some fine wine and food etc.
With the same meeting points/controls
Because if mid way round you decide to skip a country or two then basically you are then on your own which take the fun out of doing the event with other crews. 
Also if there is more pressure to complete all countries then there is less chance of people stopping to help others with mechanical problems

[don cook1]

Well, to be fair to Raider, there were alternatives to driving hard and he did suggest at the start that if it got too much then get on the motorway!

Funny that you mention a two tier type of run because last year (I think) I was talking to James (we were wearing TSSC hats at the time) about a run to Istanbul (now evolved into the Acropolis Rally Run) and we discussed this very thing and James coined the title Two Run Run which I think is excellent and should be saved for another time. I think its easier said than done though.

Now Mr Gair, you may recall that we shared accommodation in Brugges and I will never forget that you were first in the loo in the morning and let out the loudest, most impressively clear fart not heard in a long time, the rest of us might even have broke out in applause!

Ahh! memories!

[Nigel]

I agree it is quite hard to organize one route let alone two.
And yes there were short cuts to catch up.
But I think as the event evolves there are going to be different people with different agenda's
On the first run there were around a dozen cars almost manageable logistics.
The next could be 50 or 60 who knows.
I think the point is that the faster cars wont want to go at the same speed as the slower ones and vice versa.
I don't know if cutting sections out on motorways is a solution?
As those could potentially miss out on some nice roads and scenery.
Its a very complex subject and this only scratches the surface of all the variables.
And yes that fart most impressive not quite a Saturn 5 earth shaker
:o but it rattled the windows a bit! but that's behind me now! ;D

[Charlie]

Quote:

but I'd like to get back and say I experienced 10 countries rather than just mindlessly driving through them.

Ok i don't really know how much you can experience of Lichenstein, the only reason i knew we'd gone through it was afterwards when my co-driver and yellow missile crew said we'd passed through their border patrol.

I think with a bit of tweaking the route as it is is fine, I don't think there was problem driving through on the friday night, though i felt sorry for the residents for some of those french villages we passed through, what they thought as a fleet of triumphs thundered past their house i don't know.

If the splugenpass is skipped then that should allow for plenty of time for the Stelvio pass. Also i found on the sunday that there was plenty of time, we spent about three hours at the nurburgring carpark at the toyo tuning day, before realising we were at the wrong place, spent an hour trying to find a cash machine and get to the campsite, and we still got to the camp site relatively early. So even with wasting 4 hours we got there early, so that could of been used to sleep on the saturday night, or if the stelvio was skipped as well you could probably get a 6 hour kip on the saturday night.

It could also be that i'm looking at this from a young crew's perspective, but we were driving a pretty standard spit 1500, which probably isn't the best car to do the trip in, but it was so much fun on the hairpins on the way to Davos.

Anyway rambled on long enough

Charlie

[val1300]

Talking about farting ( sorry to go off thread ), while staying in that pig farm on the 10CR, I shared a room with two guys. One I think was James Curruthers, can't remember the other one, sorry. I don't know if it was the Belgium beer or the BBQ, but these guys could both fart for England. I was below one of the guys in a bunk bed, so I was getting it full on face !!.......I woke up with a centre parting !!!!!

[James]

Wasn't me! Craig and I shared a room on our own... much to our luck it seems!

[val1300]

Strange, I could have sworn it was you. Oh well, I wonder if anyone will own up ?  !!!

[James]

We were meant to have shared with you - but in the end there was a bit of a cock up and we got a room to ourselves.

[curtis]

Seems like it was either a loud fart or a cock up.

I know which I'd choose ::)

Curtis

[sairey]

I'll stick in my twopenneth worth of suggestions too. How about:
- Boat to Bilbao (Spain [1])
- Through Pyrenees and along south coast of France (Andorra [2] and France [3])
- Through Monnacco [4]  into Italy [5]
- Via Turin and Lake Garda to Austria [6]
- Head to Lichenstein [7] then Switzerland [8] going over the bodenzee on a ferry to Germany ]9]
- Across the bottom of Germany to Luxembourg [10] before heading back through Holland [11] and Belgium [12] to get the boat back to England [13].

Thats 4-5 days plus the boat and 13 countries. San Marino is also in reach if you want to make it 14

[v8dean]

[quote by=GT6_Don link=Blah.pl?b=10CR,m=1131902691,s=28 date=1133224662]Very enjoyable Dean, wouldn't miss the social side for anything...where's my room...[/quote]

I couldn't find it myself the first time , so why you're asking me now, i dont know!

Dean

[Jason]

This debate's great so let's jump in with my views -
I like driving, good roads, interesting scenery. I love seeing Triumphs out on the road en masse and I think Johnny Foreigner does too - I mean we have to show him how it's done.
I like food, I am afterall a fat bloke :-) I like drink (well you have to have a hobby) BUT I do the 10CR for the driving challenge, the social breaks are made all the more social because of the challenge. Driving to a nice restaurant for a leasurely meal and then a kip in a soft hotel bedroom isn't really much of a challenge - don't get me wrong I'd enjoy that too BUT, to me, the 10CR is a driving event.
Now no one wants to be macho and push on until you do something stupid - I know I have been there, I got away with it but I still worry myself with what could have been and that keeps me sensible. This time I knew the signs and I took action.
There's another element to this, cost - driving, ferrys here and there, nights in hotel, good food and wine all adds up. More so if you do it in the summer which is peak time for ferry/hotel etc. Timing is important too - September 11th is my daughter's birthday, I managed to get a costly dispensation this time but other than that it's a good time - cooler than high season yet not winter. Most of us can get time away from work, family, business in September, perhaps not so in the main summer months.
As for the route, keep changing it! The high passes were great, the roads challenging. I need to do the Nurburgring next time though! There needs to be a mix, we ended up for 14+hours on the autobahns but even that was good in a Triumph.
Personally the ingredients are all there, it's at the right time of year and it' just about the ight length of time. Costs are OK and the balance is about right. There's no one thing I would change, just keep little bits changing - don't go back to all the same places every year, some yes, like Lesa but keep varying the root and format.
10 Countries is a good war cry. I would avoid bloating it up into a Triumph holiday. Drive hard, be challenged, enjoy the act of spirited Triumphing in the wild. If you want a continental Triumph touring holiday then organise one!
Remember, bigger isn't always better, technique counts ;-)

J

[thescrapman]

Well said Jason!

Forget the softy stops for nice meals and hotel beds.

There is no more comfortable place to sleep than the back seat of a dolomite, and there the no better food than that provided by Mr Walkers.

Colin

[Raider]

Well, although I am in complete agreement with you guys and am very glad for your support ;)

There will be options on the next one, an explicit mix and match approach so that there is at least one choice of "driver's route" and "tourist route" on most of the sections.

Mind you, I did think I had said enough times last time that it wasn't a race, that you should cut the route if you didn't like the pace etc etc. And that was in every newsletter and during the driver's briefings - in 2007 it will be in BIG LETTERS very often :P

[James]

Martin - the one thing that must be made very very sure with doing two routes (if that's what we do) is not to segregate or belittle those chosing the "lesser" route. The lesser route cannot be a lesser route - people have to be proud to complete either one.

Personally I think a common route should be kept - however the "nutter" route incorporates extra loops mid-stage or at the ends.

[Raider]

Indeed - and this time there will be definite "rallying points" where entrants will need to have their roadbook signed to be classed as a finisher.

I envisage that some will change between "driver's" and "tourist" routes as they wish whilst others can take any route they like as long as they are at the next "rallying point" in a 2 hour window to get their roadbook signed.

I don't know about belittling people though - there will always be some banter both ways. Indeed I am still gutted that Jason and crew did the whole route to Ventimiglia and we gave up liKe a pair of jessies :B

[Jason]

Ahh but you didn't get stuck in Italy and locked into endless charging around mountain passes doing every "caution" route on the map for like 6 hours - mind you, it was really crazy and we did have fun despite being mightily disappointed that we couldn't do the ring. But you see that's the great part of the 10CR - it really didn't matter! We enjoyed it hugely and I'll be back :-)
As for belittling people well you can't stop that, we do it all the time, I mean what are TR7's for otherwise? It's all in jest and as the sying goes, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't join :-) There are a cross section of cars, people and crews onthe 10CR, ndeed you need that. I would not expect a 948 Herald to keep up with a Rally Replica TR7 V8 but I would never seriously belittle anyone's efforts - afterall, ALL our cars are over 20 years old, the majority over 30 years old and we still do great things in them.
I like the idea of stated alternative routes - that means you can still cut out the more time consuming or demanding roads and stay likely to encounter fellow 10CR cars en route. Indeed it's not always through lack of balls that you might need to cut the route, it coudl be through lack of fuel, sleep, gears or other mechanical malardies - of course we'd still rip the p*ss :-)
Some way of communicating with all crews would be a boon - if we could find a way to say send a text message to one number and have it relayed out to everyone that would be great - obviously cost would have to be kept down to make it workable. That would probably increase the cohesiveness of the run and perhaps relieve some of the anxieties when you haven't seen another Triumph for half a day!

[James]

SMS is being looked in to.

All I mean by keeping the routes similar is that the event needs to be "one" and not the 10CR Easy and the 10CR hard.

It's like the RBRR - everyone from the 948s to the big saloons do the same route - it's something to complete together. And that isnt exactly easy is it!?

You want to be able to say "I did the 10CR07" and not have someone say "ahh but did you do the easy route?"

In essence I think I am saying that the 10CR should still say with a "difficult" route that everyone can do - rather than making a driving and a touring one. You wouldn't want this on the RBRR would you...? (not that it's really possible)

Group endurance driving is about achievement together - not half the contingent taking part in a touring holiday.

[Jason]

Yup - I think that's all fair comment James. Like on the first 10CR when we had the alternative route down through Gap. We did that in 22 feet of stretched Herald, there was no way we could get round some of the roads we were physically too long (a problem I've never encountered again :-) but I don't think anyone could say we were lightweights!
So we're talking one run with alternatives and some more rendezvous points - sounds right to me.

[Tim Bancroft]

I reckon that w eshould have just one route, but be told that it is acceptable to cut the route if having problems time, car etc. The RBRR has benn run for ever on this premise, it seems to work.
In fact the 10CR should become more RBRR like, controls should be introduced- maybe not 13no. like the RBRR, but say between 6 and 10. We have two with a French overnight stop and the Belgium BBQ.
Surely we now know enough European people who could help with this?
This will give a sense of purpose and help to drive crews on and help with the camaraderie of the event.
I suppose the stops would have to be open for 2hours, surely we can sort that out.