Updated springs ? Standard shocks?

[Batman]

Bit of advice, I am doing a complete nut and bolt rebuild on my 1978 spit 1500 and want some advice on the springs and shocks.

I went OTT with my mini both in harshness and price so am wary of doing the same with this.

Probably going to stick with standard (ish) shocks, can't really justify £100+ a corner for Koni/spax for something I will only take out on the odd weekend drive.

So, the big question is, is it ok to fit standard shocks and updated springs?

Or should I just fit standard springs and shocks?

[yorkshire_spam]

I'm running standard shocks with slightly stiffer slightly shorter front springs (these I think http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/r.....e-pair-tt4302pr.html ) and I think the handling and ride are excellent. I just had to fit a small spacer to get it looking how I wanted (it was slightly to low)
IMHO standard springs ride too high at the front and are too soft.

[ferny]

Standard dampers and heavy springs here. Ideally you want to upgrade both but it's not strictly necessary if the dampers are in good order.

[Batman]

Going to fit new ones anyway (old ones are buggered) but would rather pay 20-30 a corner for shocks if poss !

[yorkshire_spam]

Quoted from Batman

Going to fit new ones anyway (old ones are buggered) but would rather pay 20-30 a corner for shocks if poss !

At one time the pattern front shocks had some issues with the spring seat at the wrong height - so worth checking the new ones if you can before fitting, just to be 100% sure.

[efp]

Can’t help you with the rear springs, but I picked this up from Paul Giethner’s excellent pages re the front, if it’s of any help:

“the total distance between the center of the bolt attaching the damper to the lower A-arm and the upper spring seat is 10.25 inches. Because the distance from the lower A-arm to damper (shock absorber) connection and the bottom spring seat is nominally 3.25 inches, this also corresponds to a compressed length of the front coil springs installed of 7 inches.

[iomgt6]

Hi all, sorry just picked up this thread, my car Gt6 Mk3 1971 just measured front suspension as follows damper lower bolt to top of spring pan 12.1/2 inches spring length 9.3/4 inches and bottom bolt to bottom of spring pan 3.1/4 inches, my steering is awful and on 3/4 lock tyres are jumping across the road ride height on the front is high and the angle of the wheels looking straight on are I would say camber is wrong the wheels splay in rather than slightly out it drives horrible, help, can you please give me your thoughts, I don't know what springs they are and the dampers are Spax but don't know which ones, I was thinking of 1" lower springs can you advise me of where to get springs from and what dampers are best, many thanks, Paul

[efp]

Hi Paul

No offence, but does your keyboard possess a full-stop key? 🙂 I ran out of breath reading that...

Others here much wiser on suspension, but to me sounds like your springs are way too long or strong. I can only speak for what has worked for me, which is slightly uprated springs from Dave at Canley Classics who is very fussy about what he sells, coupled with adjustable seat shocks (Spax in my case, though I know others don't care for them)  so I was easily able to get the dimensions I cited above.  Have yet to give it a brutal workout, but she sits nicely and alignment is spot on, so Im pretty confident..

There seems to have been a spate of certain aftermarket sellers (mentioning no names) selling shocks and springs that just aren't to spec just because they vaguely fit into our cars, but like brakes and tyres, safe handling is just too crucial to skimp on.

[Guppy916]

Hi bud, Ive fitted Spax Front shocks (All parts from Rimmer's) part number GSA366SPAX, and Front Springs Uprated 1’’ lower 262 lbs part number 212425UR
and on the rear  Spax shocks GDA4011SPAX and RH5371 this is a 1/2 lowering plate,
along with a new rear spring from SC Parts part number 17409
I think I have got the ride height right it also drives good, it sits on 185x55x15 Minilite's

[Slimboyfat]

Quoted from efp

Hi Paul

which is slightly uprated springs from Dave at Canley Classics who is very fussy about what he sells, coupled with adjustable seat shocks (Spax in my case, though I know others don't care for them)  

.

Just want to make it clear that we didn't supply the Spax dampers, just the springs.

We have NEVER sold Spax dampers.

[efp]

See, told you he was fussy. 🙂

Apologies for my poor phrasing: the Spax  did indeed come from elsewhere.

[iomgt6]

ah ha so EFP we all make mistakes with our writing of threads on here, no offence of course, anyway that aside thanks for your reply, and many thanks to Guppy916 that's great I will follow your path, the photo your Gt6 looks great, thanks all, Paul

[efp]

Touché Paul

[Tim Bancroft]

My experience is with shocks and springs, is not to cut corners.

Decent dampers make a massive difference to GT6s, better dampers will control springs and make the car more pleasant to drive. Why do manufacturers spend vast sums on suspension?

Konis and 330lb front springs (better still the slightly stiffer ones that Moss sell) are great for these cars. Small wheelbase makes the car's ride choppy, better dampers will help.

Once done, get the car four wheel aligned to ensure the wheels are pointing in the correct direction.

£30 dampers will not last long.

AVO or Spax....er no thanks.

Decent tyres with reasonable sidewall depth is always essential: 175/70 13 on 5.5J wheels.

All the above is based upon 35 years of small chassis Triumph driving and seems to be the norm amongst my peers.

[Richard B]

Quoted from iomgt6

and the angle of the wheels looking straight on are I would say camber is wrong the wheels splay in rather than slightly out it drives horrible, help, can you please give me your thoughts

Have you got the right number of camber shims between your lower wishbones and the chassis.

[iomgt6]

Hi again thanks for the info, ordered my 330lb springs would love Konis but price is an issue I was thinking spax or gaz, I have ordered some shims Off Canleys as well and a 3/4 rear lowering block, but now looking at the car the right rear is slightly lower than the left on a reasonably flat floor, I am now wondering if the spring is knackered as the back is quite low anyway, looking at our pics of gt6's, I intend to put the new springs and shocks on front try get that sorted first than see about the back. I have bought 2 laser levels and a camber/ castor gauge (red £59.99) off ebay to get the alignments somewhere near then get alignment check done to see if my efforts correspond, if they do I know that I can do my own in future. My one question I am puzzled with is how do you alter castor angle, thanks once again, Paul

[Taylor bright]

Please don't buy gaz units, I've had 12 units on the dyno at work (varying cars) and 10 of them haven't worked properly as they'd be missing half of the bump side of the graph  as something was blocked the shims from closing properly, koni shocks are often of reasonable quality

[drofgum]

Paul,
Caster is adjusted by moving shims from the front to rear (or vice versa) lower wishbone mounting. Moving shims to the rear increases caster.
                                                                                                   Regards,
                                                                                                   Paul

[stevesspit16]

Normally guys don't have to adjust caster, I've never even bothered measuring mine, but as Paul says, not difficult to adjust.

Not sure how your going to use all those new tools, I've always done my alignment (4-wheels) with string, a measuring tape and some math.  Never taken it in in 20 years so I think you'll be happy with your own work.

Great idea to complete the front first, when I did mine with lowered 330# springs in front, KYB shocks, and a heavy duty rear leaf with no lowering block, soon after it settled in to a near-perfect stance (a tiny bit lower in back might be good, maybe 1/4").

Good luck, looking forward to hearing your progress.

Steve

[iomgt6]

thanks once again for replies, frustration is now setting in big time, my new Canley springs have arrived 330lb 1" lower, I have taken the old spring/damper unit off the car the spring looks identical to the new one although I have not stripped the old down yet (waiting for compression tools to arrive) the new spring has the same amount of coils is the same thickness of spring 1/2" and dia is the same, the length of the new spring is about 1/2" longer than the old (in its assembled form), conclusion is the car already has uprated springs but looking at EFP's earlier thread the dimensions against my earlier thread dimn leaves me baffled as mine are clearly longer, I have ordered new shocks which are fixed seat so fitting the new springs are not going to achieve the lowered car effect, the new springs cost me £25 delivery as I live in the Isle of Man so looking like expensive loss, the car had a full body off restoration 9 years ago so I don't know what was done with improvements etc, having now spent 12,000 total to date and 10 months of solid work (i'm retired) driving the car is horrible, its a shame as the body/ chassis is totally rust and filler free, well I'll fit the new suspension and do the alignments, see how we go from there, bought shims for camber castor, currently there is one shim only on all four lower wishbone bolts. I have bought the 2 laser levels to align the car finding the centre line off the chassis as I have stripped the rear wishbones off to fit polybushes so not sure of the rear wheel alignment to the chassis centre, Paul

[iomgt6]

update, having now removed the old spring from damper I couldn't believe the length of it, it's 3 inches longer than the new one, so all's well with the new spring however fitting the new spring to Gaz shock ( bought Gaz as a lot on here seem against Spax cant afford Koni and the wife said as I had spent so much on this car, I needed to buy Her something Gold) its fractionally loose anyway thought this would be alright once the pressure is on it, so I lowered the car and the spring slipped out of the top pan, there are no spacers fitted so any suggestions on this little problem, thanks Paul

[Clive]

But the spring will settle OK into the seat pan??
The issue is the springs are loose when the car is jacked up, but unless you are jumping humped-backed bridges and "getting some air" on the road it will not be an issue.

However....you may encounter issues with the IOM test??

Couple of solutions. Assuming the shock seat pan is welded to the shock body, if it has some holes drilled you can wire/cabletie the spring to the lower pan. I did this on my last spitfire.
On my current spitfire (konis!) I have welded a 2" bit of tube (4" diameter I think) to the top pans, keeps the spring in place nicely.

[Guppy916]

Guys ! what has happened to our web site? ive been away for a couple of weeks and now trying to log on, and it's all gone pear shaped, if this is a new site I want the old one back ASAP.

Oh sorry to change the topic 

[Guppy916]

and my "avatar" gone

[iomgt6]

ah, I'm back, having had major problems getting onto this new site, however an update, oh boy fitted new uprated springs to new Gaz dampers, looking good until I shut the bonnet, wheel arches resting on tyres, oh hell, stripped the suspension down again, the seats on the Gaz dampers are 1/2" lower than the standard, fitted standard dampers on with new uprated springs, gives me 1/4" gap tyre to wheel arch, no good, so bought under spring spacers when they arrived they wouldn't fit onto damper and also oversize to the I/d of spring, so no good, bit the bullet bought Spax adjustable ride height, fitted them with said springs to find 1/2" gap arch to tyre at the Spax full height adjustment, so still no good, all this has become a nightmare, my iom government test is Thursday this week and I still have no front suspension, at the moment my only hope is put  it all back together with 1/2" arch to tyre gap and turn up the damper to try to stop tyre catching arch just to get through the test...........have others had these problems as when I read people have fitted uprated springs with standard dampers it gives the impression they have been fitted straight on with no problems, which makes me wonder if there is something amiss with my car also I bought the top adjustable wishbones so to help set camber, nicely made but I have had to adjust to their maximum to get the 2.3/4 neg camber with a shim under all corners so defeating the object of the adjustable wishbones, why did I buy this car!!.