mpbarrett Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Just watched the Youtube video of the 1961 LeMans with the 3 TR4 with the twin cam engines (Sabrina??). They finished the race and infact were the only team to finish with all the cars still running.So why didnt Triumph develop the engines to use in the road cars? Was there something wrong with the design or was it the usual lack of development funds? Do any of the engine still exsist?BTW I liked the fins that were added to the Tr4's made them look very 1960's rather than 1950's.....Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 where the link,!!!I think they were going to cost too much, read some thing by Harry Webster on it, but along time agoso no so sure, no doubt a Orac will be alang to give the full SPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69vitesse Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Triumph ran out of money.Its perennial problem - too many good ideas chasing not enough money.Shame really, they really were Britains BMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 796 wrote:where the link,!!!I think they were going to cost too much, read some thing by Harry Webster on it, but along time agoso no so sure, no doubt a Orac will be alang to give the full SPMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGfQOLFHgYE&feature=player_detailpageit was posted on the forum recently.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 2729 wrote:Triumph ran out of money.Its perennial problem - too many good ideas chasing not enough money.Shame really, they really were Britains BMW.Yes. Its interesting how many German companies have Engineers on there boards and that the banks in Germany take a long term view of investment. In the uk there are very few (any) boards of large companies that have engineers or technical specilaist on the board. The uk is dominated by Finance/accountants/lawyers on the boards and the UK markets have a very short term view of investments.Sorry all of that was very OT and maybe not true of the 1960's..Back on topic.....So are there any of Twin Cam engines around being used?Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69vitesse Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 It was even more true of the 60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 They do still exist, saw one years ago at Beaulieu.Neil Revington ran one of the TRS's at Classic Le Mans a few years ago. Unfortunately it had a TR4 engine fitted so it was demonstration circuits not competing for points. He did know where one engine was but it was serious money, and even more money to build all the unique parts to recondition the engine.According to Robsons book, the factory did not get the power benefits out of the engine they were expecting for the cost and they were put off by the warrenty claims MG were suffering on the MGA Twin-Cam.An idea ahead of its time, for the money and technology available :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 927HP and 928HP are both running with Sabrina engines, though at least one of them I remember was running with Webers, rather than DU6s,Cheers,Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have seen an S.T internal memo from July 1958 where tooling costs for a projected 1,000 Sabrina engines was quoted at 30K.30 quid an engine tooling, and then add to that the costs of actually building them, that's a lot of money in 1958. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogie Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 There is a Sabrina engine in London somewhere but it is going nowhere. I believe there are some in Germany.Although finishing LeMans the engines didn't perform that well.A chap in the TR Register created his own Sabrina from an Alpha engine. He manufacturered the 'Sabrina' cam covers and sourced a pair of DU6's.The carbs were the most expensive part of the engine project. Quite an impressive Repro/TRibute call it what you may.Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonnett Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 2601 wrote:There is a Sabrina engine in London somewhere but it is going nowhere. I believe there are some in Germany.Although finishing LeMans the engines didn't perform that well.A chap in the TR Register created his own Sabrina from an Alpha engine. He manufacturered the 'Sabrina' cam covers and sourced a pair of DU6's.The carbs were the most expensive part of the engine project. Quite an impressive Repro/TRibute call it what you may.RogerYes he trials a very competitive TR3A and I was talking to him on the Exeter back in January. He mentioned that somebody could manufacture Sabrina engines at about £60k. But in his words, "That's divorce money" ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDeTriomphe Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 2601 wrote:A chap in the TR Register created his own Sabrina from an Alpha engine. He manufacturered the 'Sabrina' cam covers and sourced a pair of DU6's.The carbs were the most expensive part of the engine project. Quite an impressive Repro/TRibute call it what you may.Is that this one?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90wM0kofNaM&blend=1&lr=1&ob=5(There's a great bit in that video at 9:25 :) )And some more nice footagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2DojMzPL8UMark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I've seen the alfa engined one at Prescott, A very tidy car indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonnett Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 MarkDeTriomphe wrote:Is that this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90wM0kofNaM&blend=1&lr=1&ob=5 (There's a great bit in that video at 9:25 :) )And some more nice footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2DojMzPL8U MarkYes, it's Phil Tucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hello Cook1e,not as voluptuous as the original triumph designed engine, a bit angular for my taste.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 2601 wrote:There is a Sabrina engine in London somewhere but Ah Mr Ames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Anyone know if he still owns the Conrero, and the Zoom, and all the other nice things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oil_on_the_carpet Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Slimboyfat wrote:I have seen an S.T internal memo from July 1958 where tooling costs for a projected 1,000 Sabrina engines was quoted at 30K.30 quid an engine tooling, and then add to that the costs of actually building them, that's a lot of money in 1958.And there you have it, trying to amortise the costs of a high end engine over just 1,000 units.For comparison, BMW's M series inline 4's developed at the same time ran to well over 3 million units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Sorry I had read the abridged version of that memo, I have now dug out the full version.It was a an estimate based on 1,000 units per year, not total units. It also lists estimate of total engine cost at 155-160 per unit.Nice bit earlier in memo about TR3 fitted with Sabrina averaging 118mph for 176 miles at M.I.R.A, with over 130mph recorded on the straights.Not bad for a car with the aerodynamics of a brick out house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Sabrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oil_on_the_carpet Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Life has not been good to Sabrinahttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/fifties-pin-up-star-now-living-1176601 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 bit of useless info, re Sabrina,s assets. There was a Lass in my town , and my Marra always fancied her, as she wore those style ..Rocket Bras,, she was about 57 at the time, still sticking up weel though.Neil got to go hame with her, the next night, 5 of us all said at same time, ..what were they like..to this he replied, got the bra off, and went to get at em, but the wer,nt there, where where they at we said, he said, doon past her belly button, they were swinging low a bit,pooor Lass got the nickname of Swing Lo ;D ;DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 3141 wrote:Yes he trials a very competitive TR3A and I was talking to him on the Exeter back in January. He mentioned that somebody could manufacture Sabrina engines at about £60k. But in his words, "That's divorce money" ;DBlimey, I wish my divorce was only costing me £60K :o Still it does mean I can have a totally guilt free Ogle at the pictures of Sabrina above ;), but that's right off topic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 cook1e wrote:Blimey, I wish my divorce was only costing me £60K :o Still it does mean I can have a totally guilt free Ogle at the pictures of Sabrina above ;), but that's right off topic!!You know what they say, don't get married, it's too expensive, just cut to the end - find a woman you don't like and buy her a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 thanks guys interesting discussion of the engines and how to get divorced! BTW Nice pictures of engines and other bits...., I like the one with Moss, shows lots of control/focus....mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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