jonnyk5614 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Any ideas?It is stuck and I keep rounding it trying to get it off.I even drilled a hole through it and tried to level it with a screwdriver but just bent the screwdrive.Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Hello Jonny,one, buy a new plug, preferably with a hexagon head (Chris Witor sells magnetic ones).A Stillson wrench is the best tool I have found to remove such awkward plugs, but it does chew the end up. The alternative to replacing the damaged plug is to weld a nut on the end for future use. Don't overtighten when replacing :-)Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Pair of stillsons and then buy a new plug....not worth the hassle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougBGT6 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My brother sheared the head off the bolt with his stillsons! ??) He drilled out the remainder, re-tapped the hole and put a bigger plug in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Heat! And then more heat!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbodger Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My vote is heat too......lots of it!! If you have a mig welder, attack it with that, try and weld something to it, a big nut, chunk of square bar, whatever, something you can get a grip on, the heat should loosen it enough to undo it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oil_on_the_carpet Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Heat, but not the nut, heat the pan around it, you want that to expand away.Ideally, get some freeze spray from B&Q to give the plug a zap. Freed off some absolutely rust welded solid drop links on my 4x4 using that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My Herald's plug was very stuck when I bought it. In the end I swapped sumps, a joyous job that involved dropping the old sump while it was still full of old, old oil. The original sump was thrown into the naughty corner, where it stayed for years. When I finally got around to removing the old plug, it needed heat, drilling and an easy-out. It came out with a huge bang - it was well and truly stuck! Removing it while the sump was still on the car would have been impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Although in Physics terms it should be the pan to be heated, in practice heating the plug should do the trickOne very serious point. Make sure that there is NO oil in the sump - the heat can very likely make it catch fire ........... how do I know :-/If necessary drill a hole in the sump plug to let it out and when heating do it is stages. Bit of heat, wrench, bit more heat, wrench and so on - if the oil is likely to catch fire you will get a bit of warning.In the subject of removal of the rounded hexagon. I use a mole wrench for this sort of thing because you are less likely to overdo the leverage as you can with a pair os Stillsons. The other option are the special Irwin hex sockets that are designed to be used on rounded nuts/bolts. Because of their design the set covers Metric and AF and are well worth having in the workshop for problems such as this - may get used very infrequently but when you need them they are a godsend.MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hello all, I tend to cringe a bit when heat is mentioned, particularly as the sump threaded inserts on our cars are brazed in and melt relatively cool (dull red or so). If mole grips work, fine but they do not grip as well as Stillsons as that grip increases with pressure, never heard of anyone shearing a sump plug before but it shows the tenacity of Stillsons.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Agree with Alec, don't think heat is too clever. Problem is the tapered thread tends to lock. I think those square headed plugs are malleable metal and don't take mig very well. Tried welding a nut on but with no success. Had the same problem with the S with both engine and gearbox. I gave mine a few severe taps on the end and finally got a pair of visegrips tightly on them. Not a 5 minute job though.Made some replacements out of 3/4" hex. brass and carefully put them in wrapped with PTFE tape with a socket.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Then.....when replacing, as the threads are tapered, it only needs tightening finger tight and then nipping up. No great torque is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshire_spam Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I welded an old land rover wheel nut (cut in half) to mine to get it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver clasper Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hi. All of above is good. I have also filed rounded hex fastenings flat on 2 sides to get open ended/heavy duty adjustable spanners and this has worked well.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Heat, and oil.A sump full of oil will take a lot more heat safely than one that is empty - and how are you to empty it?The plug won't come out!Some oil may evaporate, rise into the cool engine and condense. There's fuel and oxygen in there, but no ignition source, so no risk of fire!Totally different from similar work on a bare sump, still wet with oil oil - that's dangerous.And, strangely, do you remember the ball and ring experiment at school. Heat either, and the heat coefficient of expansion make the ring big enough for the ball to fall through, or the ball expand enough not to fit?What Teacher never shows you is that heat them both and the situation doesn't change. It will still fit/ not fit thropugh the ring, beacuse thye both expand the same. But the expansion will stress corrosion or an interference fit enough to loosen it.Always tighten slightly first before straining to loosen, for the same reson. loosen it.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hello John, "Always tighten slightly first before straining to loosen"I've heard that for rusted fasteners, not sure if it's effective, but it's not going to help with a tapered thread that's already overtight?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you can't get that plug out, the sump is scrap.Try anything that works.I just took off a Zetec head. Those are stretchbolts, torqued then angled and these were tight! And they are TORX head bolts, that the bit just can't grip like a hexhead can.Lean in hard, tighten, click as they release and then they come out.Quite a different fastener, same technique works!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 JohnD wrote:Heat, and oil.A sump full of oil will take a lot more heat safely than one that is empty - and how are you to empty it?The plug won't come out!Some oil may evaporate, rise into the cool engine and condense. There's fuel and oxygen in there, but no ignition source, so no risk of fire!Totally different from similar work on a bare sump, still wet with oil oil - that's dangerous.And, strangely, do you remember the ball and ring experiment at school. Heat either, and the heat coefficient of expansion make the ring big enough for the ball to fall through, or the ball expand enough not to fit?What Teacher never shows you is that heat them both and the situation doesn't change. It will still fit/ not fit thropugh the ring, beacuse thye both expand the same. But the expansion will stress corrosion or an interference fit enough to loosen it.Always tighten slightly first before straining to loosen, for the same reson. loosen it.JohnValid point about using heat - should be used with care and not for people who do not think about what they are doing.The reason for using mole wrench as I said is to avoid the problem that can be experience with using stllsons that so much leaverage can be generated that as was mentioned by Doug the plug can be ripped off.How to drain the oil? As I said drill a hole in the plug and let it out. Then put something into the hole to seal it up again - either a hexagon self tapper or tap a thread in the hole you have drilled and put a bolt in - backed up if necessary with a copper washer to seal it. A sump full of oil will absorb so much heat that it could prevent the plug reaching a suitable temperature until all the oil was at a dangerous temperature.I had precisely this problem of a stuck sump plug on a Lancia HPE that I had acquired about 35 years ago. To remove I did exactly as I described using great care with the heat but you are not trying to make it red hot, just trying to elevate the temperature of the plug to make it expand a little. Remember the oil must vaporise as only the oil vapour will burn, oil has a high evaporation temperature, and the flash point of that vapour will be pretty high, so the risk of it catching light is much less than other potentially flammable organic liguids. DO making sure that there was a means of extinguishing any flame if any oil does catch fire.Welding a nut onto the plug using mig would probably be quite safe as the heat is very localised but there may still be a problem getting enough heat into it if the sump is full of oil ....... but if the method works, it works!This teacher did show what happened with the ball and ring trick when both were heated - I used it as part of the ensuing discussion I would always have to explain about expansion of the metal shapes, the ring and the ball.Yes we both agree that the expansion of the plug on heating redistributes some of the stresses that were making the plug tight so that you have a chance of it releasing. Also a little oil will be heated enough for its viscosity to lower so that it can migrate into the thread so lubricating it.MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ted,Your link didn't work - please repeat, as I'd like to see the video!John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 892 wrote:I haven't tried to undo my sump plug for years. I will be soon to fit a temperature gauge. I will be reviewing this thread if I have a problem.I always suck the oil out thru the dip-stick tube. The manual vacuum oil pump thingy is great! :)Cheers,Iain.That could be a revelation! Twenty years (?) of gunge that a dip stick sucker could not possibly remove.But talking dipsticks, look at the VW Beeetle or Kamper dipstick that doubles as a temperature probe. No need to remove that sump plug, ever, Iain!Also VDO sell the same idea, complete with the gauge as well.Just Google for "VW or VDO dipstick temperature probe".John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hello Iain, "Now, if you found me one for oil level? (electric/electronic of course!)"Not that there are many left now but the old 'Aunty' Rovers had a button to do just that, it read off the fuel gauge if my memory is correct?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Many, many years ago (in the '60's) I remember on my Friday night walks around town, our motor accessories shop had these. Seem to remember a probe thing down the dipstick hole with a wire coming out of it.Being a young apprentice I couldn't afford one for my Morris 8.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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