Baxter Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Fraid that looks very much like its in the wrong way round. I know different manufacturers have different designs but the flatter central plate is usually on the flywheel side (see WSM). Dont know if anyone else can validate that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Spent the morning with my nose in the WSM and it does indeed say longer boss of the splined hub towards the gearbox. Is that not the way round I have it? Is the boss really longer on the other side? Here's the image from the WSM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The WSM diagram isn't entirely helpful here. My instinct (again, it's a while since I changed a GT6/Vitesse clutch) agrees with glang - the photo looks to be the wrong way round. The visible boss is chunkier than some manufacturers' would be but it's only referenced as an easy thing to spot. The real issue is whether the spring plate would catch on the flywheel / bolts. To my eye, the springs in your photo look to be offset toward the flywheel from the friction material, which means it's the wrong way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 This sounds quite promising then, Clive, glang and Rob, as something is clearly wrong, and flipping a friction plate round is going to be a lot easier than playing around with carrier and push rod lengths looking for a solution. Only my pride would be hurt this way, and there's not much of that left after almost 5 years of trying to get this thing back on the road! I see the WSM says to work under the car to remove the rear mounting bracket [from the chassis]. Do I have to do that? When I've taken the engine+gearbox out together I just undid the fastening between the rear extension and the mounting bracket - following Autopress manual I think, as it's easier to read than the WSM. Is this a no no? It's always safer and more comfortable not having to work under the car. Probably won't get to this today now, as real world jobs have intervened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR4A-APRacing-clutch-disc-CP5351-3-Borg-Beck-pres-plate-LC03JC049A/254460410828?hash=item3b3f05bbcc:g:8YIAAOSwdbZbbi8I This ebay sale has good pictures of a clutch which, although for a different mode,l is very similar to yours and has the side identification stamped on it. With gearbox removal the mounting might get in the way as you try to pull it out backwards away from the engine (removing engine and box forward wouldnt have the same problem). Possibly you could do it without removing the mounting by jacking the back of the engine slightly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I don't think I've ever removed the plate from the chassis, just the mount from the plate, although there's a bit of fiddle to undo those bolts without going underneath. As you will need to raise the back of the engine for the gearbox to clear the tunnel, you may even get away with undoing the mount from the gearbox instead, especially if it's a non-OD box (all my small-chassis Triumphs since about 1990 have had OD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shynsy Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi Are you sure you put the friction plate in the correct way around. On some cars it is quite possible to assemble it backwards and then it either doesn't engage or dis-engage. tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Hi Tim, Did you miss the presence of page 2 of the thread? It's a good call but it's been the working assumption for the last several posts already 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Well, I took the gearbox out today - job and a half that was - and it is indeed a relatively simple case of friction plate the wrong way round. I'd apologise for the anti-climax of the murder mystery ending up more like a wild goose chase, but there is still a little mystery to be enjoyed here. Turns out I had followed WSM and installed longer boss towards gearbox. So it seems my clutch does not match WSM spec. I know it's the wrong way round now, not just because of all the great advice on this forum, but because it's possible to find the writing 'HccL SIDE' on the side I had facing the gearbox, if you know what you're looking for. Also SCHWUNGRAD SEITE a little clearer. Took me much longer to get the gearbox out alone than engine+box. Probably much easier with 2 people, whereas a good crane and load-leveller make the engine job simple on my own. Really not looking forward to trying to support it and line it up to put it back in. Any advice before I start reassembly? There are a few iron filings to clean up from where the metal around the springs bit into the bolts attaching the flywheel. Doesn't look significant damage at all. The white grease I was advised to smear thinly on the splines seems to have dried to a lumpy brown. I should clean it off and check I have correct product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Easy mistake to make and all part of the rich learning process😄 The gearbox might just slot into place or be a right pig! The trouble is getting the angle right as visually it can look spot on but isnt! I take it your pretty confident the gearbox doesnt need any more attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Definitely a good lesson! I've still no idea how good the gearbox is. Feels like all gears can be selected, that's all I can say. Not been used for decades and no notes from whoever last used it. As it can be such a pig to get in and out, I'd love to do any maintenance now, so will investigate a routine overhaul plan if not too complex. Otherwise, happy to give it a go and see how it performs. If it needs to come out again I can try to beat my time 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Yes always difficult to know what to do with an unknown gearbox. I just changed the front and rear oil seals as theyre easy and cheap to do plus made sure all the gearbox bolts were tight before installing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Two long bolts, one each side of the bell housing will help if you're working alone. lets you get it roughly lined up and the rest can be done by eyecrometer. Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 It I see worth cleaning the OD filters, and setting the solenoid (if D type) whilst on the bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 As Colin says, worth cleaning filters where relevant. Also, drain it and see how the oil looks and whether anything untoward comes out with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Quoted from nang- Two long bolts, one each side of the bell housing will help if you're working alone. lets you get it roughly lined up and the rest can be done by eyecrometer. Tony. This works a treat. I have a pair of bolts, about 2" or so long (one a bit longer than the other) with the heads cut off and a slot cut so I can use a screwdriver. I fit them to the 2 studholes at the top of the block. Lift teh box onto the nice long studs, and it guides the box beautifully into position. And you can wiggle the tail end easily to get the box to fit before any bolts are fitted. Never pull the box into position using a bolt, it can cause serious damage. I am with Colin on checking the overdrive filters, MUCH easier that when in the car. Likewise solenoid working/setup. Presumably the box had fresh oil in it? Just thinking that it is possible to flush the box by draining a fair bit of the oil, and then add some diesel. Run the gearbox and overdrive, ideally with prop disconnected so no load. Then drain overnight. Refill with your oil of choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 The two long bolts method has removed the cloud hanging over the refit, thanks. Almost looking forward to it now. Will order some seals and gaskets and proceed per the above comments - hopefully next week. Not sure about using the diesel, Clive, though that sounds like a tip for when it's all back together so can decide then. I did drain and refill the box in readiness for my maiden 10 yard drive. Will drain again, and inspect to determine how much flushing required. Also, I do have OD and didn't know to drain it separately last time, so will be good to do that properly along with the filters. Starting to sound like a stroke of luck I had to take the box out now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 As previously mentioned, when putting the gearbox back into the car it is essential to get the gearbox lined up with the engine, often it is easier to move the engine angle, this being done with a trolley jack and pad of wood (to spread the load and to ensure the sump is not punctured by the boss on the trolley jack) under the sump. I use a length of steel bar (actually the handle end of a GT6/Spit spring removal tool) to move the gearbox around to raise it or drop it. Also, keep it in gear so that you can turn the output flange if the splines are slightly out of alignment. As the heater and the gubbins behind the dashboard are quite low, take off the gear selector mechanism when putting the g'box into the car. I always go in from the passenger side, take out the seat and carpets (and the passenger side glove box/tray) and lay some thick blankets etc to protect the floorpans. I use the steel bar under the bellhousing and lever off the chassis rail. Unless something is seriously wrong, gearboxes go in quite quickly...its a great feeling when one has out them back into the car as it is an awkward job. Use normal nuts and (new) spring washers for the bellhousing bolts, clean the bolts and nuts so that they can be hand tightened before using a wrench. Generally I put the bolts in from the engine side, using small mole wrenches to hold the bolts whilst I put the washers and nuts on. Use extension bars (1/4 etc to make it easy when tightening these...stuff a rag into the clutch release arm hole to stop nuts falling through into the clutch assembly...! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cook Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I put a trolley jack under the rear engine plate and clutch housing getting both the same level, another trolley jack supporting the rear...both facing forward. Get them lined up and push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Gearbox back in and clutch now working. Thanks for all the help! Particularly using a couple of long studs to help locate and guide the box in. Thought it would never go, but found it was first fouling the bulkhead around the starter, and later hooked over the flange on the propshaft. Took me forever, but I don't mind because I followed Tim's advice on stuffing a rag in the release arm hole - and avoided a heart attack when I dropped the first nut onto it! Maybe it'll all be a lot smoother next time. Wonderful to drive the car. albeit no more than 5 metres. First and Reverse both working. Clutch smooth! Will now wake the paperwork from pre-SORN era and get car ready for a trip to my local classic-friendly MOT station. Cheers, Baxter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Yay! Hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just need the gearbox to behave itself now and your all set for the spring😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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