MJD14 Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Can someone tell me what is the difference between the standard leaf spring fitted to my 68 13/60 convertible and a swingspring (in simple terms please)I note that the kit comes with a spring and a anti roll bar, is it a straight fit/replacement for the standard leaf spring and if so what are the advantages - is it worth doing?
JohnD Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 The swing spring allows all the springs, bar the bottom leaf, to pivot on the top of the differential.This cunning plan reduces the stiffness-in-roll without making the entire rear spring weaker, which would make the car unable to take a load, or 'bottom' on bumps.The body rolls more, but lifts the rear wheel less, so that 'jacking' and severe oversteer is made much less likely.Neither roll nor jacking are really noticeable in ordinary driving, but the second is worth having if you want to drive like you stole it, or unexpectedly need to corner sharply - avoiding-action, say.See the diagrams on the Rimmers catalogue pages: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/rimmer/triumph/spitfire/susp#Rear%20Spring,%20Fittings%20&%20Shock%20AbsorberChanging the rear spring demands you also change the front antiroll bar to maintain a balance of the front and rear suspensions. Apart from that, its a swap.Does that help?John
Dale Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 As John says it's pretty much a straight swap + ditto with thicker front a' roll bar though it might be worth considering fitting the longer driveshafts too as this gives much more negative camber.Only thing to be careful of there is tyre clearance against rear wing/wheel arches esp. if you have 'Carlos Fandango' wheels in which case some reduction of the return lip on the wing will be reqd.Of course you could go mental and fit adjustable rear radius arms too which would allow you to muck about with the rear tracking but I can't think of anyone stupid enough to try that one!!!! :B
Clive Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 And yes this simple conversion TRANSFORMS the handling, far more predictable, and the best money you can spend on the car (apart from petrol :P)I have used sh ones from late spitfires to good effect too.Clive
Pete Lewis Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Different veiw to Clive , I ran one for 3 years and after it minced the box rubber pad for the 2nd time took it off , even with the 1" roll bar there was body roll like a boat on roundabouts, there was lack of travel on the std. shockers which needed the bumps taken out load carrying was OK 5 up and boot full of picnic stuff but could wallow if sped into a dip in the road etc ,, it would not cope with twin silencers ride ht wheel arch to ground from memory about 20.5"have since fitted a courier and 1" drop plate , and I like it , 0.5 pos camber ,, you get neg camber with the swinger which looks a bit meaner... but now ' turn in' is snappy and theres no roll gives ride ht 21.5"there is a poly bush for the top box which may wear better, with the extra weight of a saloon compared the the spifire if that helps Pete
MJD14 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Many thanks for all of the useful information guys - much appreciated.Pete, when you say that a polybush is available for the top box, do you mean between the spring and the top of the diff?Having just taken off my old spring/diff I was suprised to find that the spring just sat on top of the diff with a spacer (1" I think) metal on metal with no bush - is that normal?With regard to the tyre clearance issue, I'm running wires with bolt on spline adapters, will that make the clearance issue better or worse?Sorry for all of the no doubt stupid questions!!
G.in_Lux Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 The only bushes are the spring eye and the radius arm, as far as I know.there's definitely nothing between the spring and diff, except muck and rust (possibly).
CharlieB Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Pete is refering to the rubber pad between the top leaf of the spring & the pivot box, this is only present on the swing spring.The 1" spacer on top of the diff is an aftermarket part fitted to lower the rear of the car, normally the spring would be fitted directly to the diff.
Clive Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Pete, I had the swingsping on a 2.5 vitesse convertible, and it was a used spit one BUT it ran Koni's, which are excellent (IMHO). No issues at all with dunlop hubcap 5.5j's either :)But on my shed (estate) I have the courier spring with a 1" spacer. Last night that was bottoming out beautifully, a good show of sparks (according to the mini 1275 we beat on a 12 car rally) We did get airbourne a bit ;)Clive
Dale Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 323 wrote:With regard to the tyre clearance issue, I'm running wires with bolt on spline adapters, will that make the clearance issue better or worse?Sorry for all of the no doubt stupid questions!!If you still have standard length Herald driveshafts you shouldn't have any clearance issues. If you have fitted the longer shafts you may have problems, although if the wires you have are 4.5J you should still just be OK but it will be tight and they're all a bit different anyway when you get down to a few fag papers worth of clearance.
mikeyb Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 cliftyhanger wrote:I have the courier spring with a 1" spacer. Last night that was bottoming out beautifully, a good show of sparks (according to the mini 1275 we beat on a 12 car rally) We did get airbourne a bit ;)CliveI have a swingspring on my Herald, but I feel it sits too low at the back. Assuming is has no lowering plate (I havn't checked yet!), I can only assume it's too soggy. I have a spare Courier spring and an estate spring, but am uncomfortable about converting back to either of these because I'll inevitably reintroduce the rear wheel tuck!
thescrapman Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 MikeyB wrote:I have a swingspring on my Herald, but I feel it sits too low at the back. Assuming is has no lowering plate (I havn't checked yet!), I can only assume it's too soggy. I have a spare Courier spring and an estate spring, but am uncomfortable about converting back to either of these because I'll inevitably reintroduce the rear wheel tuck!Not with a Courier spring and a 1" plate you won't.CheersColin
Clive Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 agreed, the sping generally doesn't move too much, and with the 1" plate gives just the right amount of neg camber. Had to load the car up well to get it to settle when first fitted though (250kg of tiles)Clive
Pete Lewis Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Whatever you do dont get a recamberd spring.. my first attempt before i asked around was a 2 deg neg unit from Moss for this we ended up with 10d neg some shortenen Gaz shockers it sat so low as worse that useless,, took the shockers of and even they were bottomed out ,(now sit in a cobwebbed box in the shed) and the spring went to silver cross to use on pram's If with a swinger its a bit low just whip a bolt out of the shocker and make sure you have some compression travel on the shocker, mine were supposed to be just std shocks , inside there were 3 doughnut bump stop rings ,, I cut the can off and withdrew 2 of the 3 to get 1.5"extra travel and that works Ok just a bit bodgy anyone seen zebedee Pete
mikeyb Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 thescrapman wrote:Not with a Courier spring and a 1" plate you won't.CheersColinwhy won't you get wheel tuck with a courier spring?
ferny Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Because it's harder and takes more effort to compress, the side with load won't be pushed down as much as it does with a standard sping - meaning the other side won't lift.
heraldcoupe Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 MikeyB wrote:why won't you get wheel tuck with a courier spring?The unladen state of a Courier spring is much flatter than that of any other Herald type. Even when the car is lifted with it's wheels clear of the ground, there in nowhere near the level of drop seen with other springs.This is all countered by the much higher rate of the spring. Cheers,Bill.
thescrapman Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 BillDo you know anyone who might still have 1 on the shelf?? ;)Just in case Mike wants one.Colin
Deleted User Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 having done an autosolo in clives herald with one fitted , i couldn't get it to tuck under , and i did try ..some people seemed shocked to see a herald estate coming sideways through the finish ....although i still prefered the feel of the swing spring
Clive Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Ah Doug, it settled properly shortly afer (see above about tile collection)and sits just right now. You drove it on its maiden outing.Seemed fairly OK the other night, not too many brown trouser moments ;D
Deleted User Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 I dunno ,i had my head stuck in a map trying not to look
Pete Lewis Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 not quite the same but the spring rate of the courier is similar to the factory competition spring but you need a drop packer to get the camber to look right \-/ is not an option Pete
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