bosch fuel pump set up

[cnicholson]

I am going to ditch the blasted Lucas fuel pump and dodgy PRV valve.... enough is enough

I have a suitable Bosch pump however does anyone know which is the best fuel filter to use, or is the existing canister type ok?

and does this pressure regulator look up to the job

Ebay item number 380308704053

my theory is that this will be much more accurate to set up and should have a large enough range to calibrate the system.

[GT6 M]

looks as though it should cope,as it goes to 10 bar.
when you only will be running  about 7

If you not got alot of GG,s then you may get away running 90 / 95 PSI with the bosch pump
BUT, depends on what ye got.
reason, the pump will still be supplying full PSI at full revs and WOT
where as most old Lucas pumps will be down to about 70 ish,or less. if in bad nick

I ran 95 PSI with a B26 and it ran great.

you need a good sized Pre filter, AS weel as an after filter too.
bigger the better really, as they wont clogg up as fast, [ pre filter ]
also get one with the biggest inlet out lets.

NOTE, may need to enlarge tank feed, as most bigg pumps require a 1/2 13mm  feed.
any thing less, may starve pump of fuel,so it starts to run hot and noisey.
says this in the destructions that come with it.

weired thing is though, no filters come with a 1/2 inlet, unless you mek one your self.
oil filter adaptor,and a cartridge filter,works fine
the pumps have a gauze filter in em, but this will soon clogg,if filtered fuel aint used
[ ever cut open a old filter, !!!  then youll see why a filter should be used]

M

[Clive]

Marcus, I thought cossie filter were about 1/2"?? certainly pretty big (just checked and M14 threads each end) and will cope with 500+BHP
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYTEC-FUEL-INJECTION-PUMP-PRE-FILTER-909-044-COSWORTH-/400289544170?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d331db7ea

[JohnD]

That regulator looks curious to me, in that it reads up to 10bar, 140psi, but the connectors are for push-on hoses with screw clips.
    Do you think that's sufficient/safe, Marcus, for LUcas Pi pressure? All the high pressure connections on OE Lucas and from the usual aftermarket suppliers of Pi gear are compression fittings.

I suspect that it might do for modern EFI systems that run at less than 50psi.
John

[GT6 M]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380308704053?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp5197.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D380308704053%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Good point John, but if you got a good clamp,that a good round fit,it should be ok.
My self on high PSI, I would like a lip to tighten against, like on ends of filters.
but could easily change to compression fittings. just use the out let pipes to fit some on.



Clive, I may be wrang, but even though that filter has got 1/2 and even 15 mm available.
I would like to see inside it.
reasoning, inside there is a disc with holes in it, but the holes are not any bigger on a 8 mm inlet to a 12 mm inlet,  its just the adaptors going into the filter that are bigger.

I went doon this route,and took one to bits. after it was found to be worse than  the straight pipe feed
my prob was that these filters were not filling up as fast as needed, when pump had sucked em dry, when I was getting surge probs.

BUT, should be ok on a PI, as they got a swirly pot,so should nae be a problem
or on a car with a good head of fuel
GT tanks have both deficiencys. untill modded.

M

[IVANHOE]

Whats happening with the lucas to make you give up on it Carl............... just curious?

[cnicholson]

the PRV keeps failing and it constantly runs like a bag of Sh*T backfiring and dodgy starting, lack of power and large soot deposits on the spark plugs.

I need something a bit more reliable so that I can actually go more than 50 miles without lifting the bonnet or boot to change a pump or PRV or inspect the throttle linkages. The RBRR is looking doubtful at this rate.

Having seen the outrageous prices of prestige and or revington for the kits I have decided to build my own setup.

There appears to a be a lack knowledgeable people in the south west that are able to help me set up the thing properly either.

[Nick Jones]

You have a gauge don't you?  Is the PRV causing the pressure to go high or low?  It's a pretty simple device so if you are having problems with more than one of them I'd be wondering what else it could be or what could be causing the PRVs to misbehave?  I know that when I added modern (ethanol containing) petrol to my PI it had a disturbing effect on the fossilised hydrocarbons in the system and led to all kinds of issues.  Cleaned tank (horrible job) replaced all lines (likewise) and converted to EFI (bit extreme!).  Works now, but the engine is knackered......

Cheers

Nick

[cnicholson]

(Forgot you where in the south west nick.... sorry  should have asked you)

I have rebuilt one of the PRV's I have spare today, and removed a load of fossilized crud from the brass bit inside it, this may help but, I am still leaning towards a bosch setup, should the fuel pressure rise the faster you go? mine seems to jump to 120 psi when I hit the throttle

[Nick Jones]

Where is the gauge connected? The fuel pressure should remain constant.  The more common fault is for the pressure to fall when the engine is working hard as more fuel is actually being used and the pump cannot keep up.

Might be worth checking whether the fuel return pipe from the MU is clear as if there is no way for excess fuel to get back to the tank I guess this will cause the pressure to rise and also cause rich running.

NIck

[cnicholson]

the gauge is connected just prior to the metering unit, and the fuel pump can be heard howling away as soon as you hit the throttle, I guess that is when it gets more voltage to play with. It was working fine till last week, after changing it a few weeks ago.

[TedTaylor]

Because of the potential voltage drop on the supply cable to the pump due to its length and being of a marginal size it is worth running a new heavier duty main (fused) feed directly to a relay mounted by the fuel pump and use the original feed wire as a switching wire to control the relay.

This means that you will always have adequate current to supply the pump motor.

Also check your earth cable connections which can be left as is because the wire is shorter (from the pump to the body) but no harm in uprating that as well.

Ted

[IVANHOE]

I would like to offer a run down of what I have done and learned about the pi system as installed in my vitesse. I have plucked information from all the usual Internet sources. Here is a summary of what I found to be important, please forgive me for repeating things that you will already know.

As a total newby to triumphs 3yrs ago I now know enough about the pi system to offer a few words of wisdom.

Lots of people get sooty plugs, in particular 4,5 and six especially with short drives......... I now use ngkbp5e and the hotter plug seems to suit my vehicle usage far better than the bp6e's.

A re-con metering unit and injectors from Neil Ferguson[k raven smith] Is a wise and not too expensive starting point.

Contrary to what some people say , I found the metering unit timing to be important, I suppose it depends how much it is out. CHECK IT.

I haven't a clue what my ignition timing is set at............... using a vacuum gauge and if it pinks retard it technique is the best. Also, If it aint ticking over at 12HG vacuum I know somethings wrong.

The pi definitely loves to be used very regularly.

If running rough - You are monitoring fuel pressure. After that I always check plugs and pull the injectors one at a time with engine running to check if injecting ok. My plugs are sooooo much better now[bp5]. The injectors generally respond to tapping them slightly on the side until they start to spray again.

As you know I have refurbished my throttle linkages and balanced the butterfies with an equal it out best you can at idle and 1500rpm and 2000rpm method using a uni-sync.

I did uprate the wiring to the pump and use a relay.

Mine did have an su helper pump but I found no difference with it on or off so I removed it. It still uses the original filter. The pump and filter are below the tank [just].

My fuel pressure gauge and vacuum gauge are permanently installed to let me know whats happening.

I know there is lots more info, the above is the basics that have helped me.............. mine is running sweet and seems 100% reliable............I trust it to set off anywhere................. even though it does look like a pile of s h i t e.

[Richard B]

187 wrote:

Mine did have an su helper pump but I found no difference with it on or off so I removed it. It still uses the original filter. The pump and filter are below the tank [just] .

You don't say what pump you have, but the Bosch pump does not like having a pump in front. I think in Estate or custom installations (where you have not got a head of petrol) then a lifter pump does help.

If running a Lucas pump then a cooling ring is advantageous.

[IVANHOE]

Richard_B wrote:

You don't say what pump you have, but the Bosch pump does not like having a pump in front. I think in Estate or custom installations (where you have not got a head of petrol) then a lifter pump does help.

If running a Lucas pump then a cooling ring is advantageous.

Sorry Richard, yes its the lucas pump with cooling coil.

[cnicholson]

well, I have done the conversion.....

not had chance to tune and synchronize the butterflies yet, but I still have a spurious back fire and it ran on after I turned it of which it has never done before!

I will update more when I have finished collecting my new addition to the family (tr6 with bosch conversion)

[Richard B]

How can a PI run on after the fuel pressure is turned off?

I suppose it could run for a couple of seconds?  :-/

What mpg are you getting, is the metering unit ok?

Torn diaphram or blocked return pipe to the tank from the MU?

Right distributor? timing ok? advances ok?


sorry in brain dump mode!

[JohnD]

Xs fuelling with pooling in the inlets could allow running on for a short while.
Or, with closed throttles, worn piston rings and xs crankcase pressure, you could be dieselling, running on engine oil vapour sucked up from the sump.  That will go on until the sump is empty!

John

[cnicholson]

converted to a bosch pmp now and the fuel pressure reads as 90 psi all the time, the car runs well, however it nows runs on when I shut of the ignition, any suggestions as to why this is happening?

[andy thompson]

Odd - my friends PI with a bosch pump does this but mine with bosch doesn't. Must be somehow pumping pressue for moments after ignition is killed. Assume it only runs on for a few seconds not 20secs or so that a PI engine on carbs can manage

[Nick Jones]

Nylon fuel line acting as an (small) accumulator?  Bosch pumps have a non-return valve, Lucas not.

Nick

[cnicholson]

ok had a good go at the pi today and made some excellent progress at last, got it all balanced up, and then found the timing was set to 8 deg after tdc!!!

set it back to 8 before and it seems spot on with no running on....

the timing flickers between 6 and 12 so I think its time for a recon dizzy (funds permitting next month anyway)
the car goes much better and is nearly smooth right through the range with the odd misfire, I think that is due to a worn dizzy though.

[cnicholson]

so far so good..... seems to run fantastic now...…