Bainzy Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Starting to pick up the pace a bit with getting everything together for converting my 1500 to EFI. Current progress includes: EDIS wasted spark ignition has been bedded in and running flawlessly for a few months and many hundreds of miles now. 5/8" UNF temperature Rover temperature sensor neatly installed and will work great with MS once I have a decent calibration for it (it's currently giving temp-corrected advance) Got the 4 injector bosses sat here for installation into my spare original 1500 manifold Cleaned up the rough casting marks inside the manifold and have made a start on gasket matching it Settled on MS3 as the price difference isn't massive, and some of the extra features (like SD card logging) are worth paying for in my case. Eventually want to try sequential and traction control but for now won't be getting the MS3X board (gotta save some fun for later!). So will be ordering this at the end of the month. Got my LC-1 wideband and stainless bung, just need to work out precisely where it will fit without fouling anything and get it welded in. Also will be ordering and machining my fuel rail this month. I'm trying to work out what the best solution is for fuelling, and ideally it'd be an in-tank pump but I can't see that ever being anything but difficult without getting a brand new tank made up.Is it really necessary to enlarge the outlet on the Spitfire 1500 tank, and would it be a bad idea using the breather pipe next to it as a fuel return from the external swirl pot? If this were actually doable it would make the installation soooooo easy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 If it were mine, Id have an outlet at each end, as the fuel will surge aboot, so an outletat each end, will in theory doo away with the need for a swirl pot.Butt, ye need to feed each outlet into a T or a V peice,then into filter,then pumpthen into another after filter, comprendo,!!Should be ok with outlet size, but it takes nowt to enlarge em.Ohh if only the GT had that type of tank,, but it aint :-/M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thanks Marcus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt6s Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 1381 wrote: [*] Got the 4 injector bosses sat here for installation into my spare original 1500 manifoldIs it really necessary to enlarge the outlet on the Spitfire 1500 tank, and would it be a bad idea using the breather pipe next to it as a fuel return from the external swirl pot? If this were actually doable it would make the installation soooooo easy.... What are you using the twin SU's modified into throttle bodies ?Yes fuel return needs to be unrestricted, failing on this results in overly high pressure at low rpm, resulting in high fueling at low speed, unnessesary map complications.How do I know this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 You need a decent breather too :)How do I know this? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I am planning on an in-tank pump. No reason to be difficult.I am using a golf IV pump, I "think" it will be just long enough to touch the bottom of the tank when fitted.A bit of slat steel plate has been made up with the correct sized hole for the pump, and this will need fitting to the top of the tank, cutting off the flange at the same time. I think it may be tack welded then soldered to avoid distortion of the plate, but will cross that bridge later.In tank pump is neat, and hopefully a simpler and quieter solution.I know Mike Bestard used a freelander pump in his GT6 convertible and he reckoned it would run the tank totally dry if you needed to. I avoided the freelander pump as it has a built in fuel regulator (the one I saw did at least) and my setup has a regulator on the fuel rail I didn't want both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt6s Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 jcarruthers wrote:You need a decent breather too :)How do I know this? :)Leave the cap open ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Gt6s wrote:What are you using the twin SU's modified into throttle bodies ?Yes fuel return needs to be unrestricted, failing on this results in overly high pressure at low rpm, resulting in high fueling at low speed, unnessesary map complications.How do I know this ?You want the return to be a bigger bore than the pressure line, same as hydraulic circuits.RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esxefi Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 796 wrote:If it were mine, Id have an outlet at each end, as the fuel will surge aboot, so an outletat each end, will in theory doo away with the need for a swirl pot.Butt, ye need to feed each outlet into a T or a V peice,then into filter,then pumpthen into another after filter, comprendo,!!Should be ok with outlet size, but it takes nowt to enlarge em.Ohh if only the GT had that type of tank,, but it aint :-/Mif(when) i remove my tank again this is exactly what i would do,braize in 1/2" bore take offs to a tee piece.but for now my swirl pot system is just fine(unless i run at full throttle for 2mins or more at which point in theory the fuel demand may outweigh the lifter pump supply,haven't had a problem yet though,so it stays) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Gt6s wrote:What are you using the twin SU's modified into throttle bodies ?Yes fuel return needs to be unrestricted, failing on this results in overly high pressure at low rpm, resulting in high fueling at low speed, unnessesary map complications.How do I know this ?I'll be using a DIY plenum with a 48mm Rover throttle body.At what size does a fuel return start to become restricted? I would've thought the flow requirements would be less given that there's a lot less pressure coming out of the top of the swirl pot compared to what the pumps require.jcarruthers wrote:You need a decent breather too :)How do I know this? :)Would a vented cap be insufficient as a breather?cliftyhanger wrote:I am planning on an in-tank pump. No reason to be difficult.I am using a golf IV pump, I "think" it will be just long enough to touch the bottom of the tank when fitted.A bit of slat steel plate has been made up with the correct sized hole for the pump, and this will need fitting to the top of the tank, cutting off the flange at the same time. I think it may be tack welded then soldered to avoid distortion of the plate, but will cross that bridge later.In tank pump is neat, and hopefully a simpler and quieter solution.This would probably be my favourite solution if it weren't experimental. I'd like to keep my original fuel tank if I can as it was restored and in great condition, so if I end up doing anything to it I'd like to know for certain that it would work well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Looks like somebody's already tried it Clive - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2476479/1976-triumph-spitfire/page-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 that was the idea, so it is perfectly feasible. Only downside is the tank would need to come out to replace the fuel pump, but in all reality they are extremely reliable. I know nobody who has ever had to replace one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Tank coming out isn't a big deal anyway, biggest effort is merely taking the interior panels off to get to the few bolts holding it in place and the hose clips. When do you reckon yours would be done by Clive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I will be adding a fuel take off from the bottom of the tank and the return will go to the current feed. All via a swirl pot.Pump will be at hand for any maintance.The idea of a in fuel pump and swirl pot is nice, but can see no real benifit.Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt6s Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 bobyspit wrote:I will be adding a fuel take off from the bottom of the tank and the return will go to the current feed. All via a swirl pot.Pump will be at hand for any maintance.The idea of a in fuel pump and swirl pot is nice, but can see no real benifit.RobWhy do'nt you just make a sump in the rear bottom of the tank and take your fuel feed from it will save space and save on buying or making a swirl pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Measured up the wideband position today. Bit tight in there between the gearbox and chassis but having a shallow lambda boss will help clearance somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Bung it on the side, easier to get at, and you may need to change it often if your engine is using oil.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Should never be placed lower than 10 or 2 0clock as the moisture and oil will sit in the sensor causing failure. Brainzy you possition is correct and almost the same possition as i had it. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Got my bung welded in today by someone that specialises in doing exhausts and motorsport stuff I found locally, can't believe how quick it is to weld things like this. I really need to learn, especially if I'm going to have a go at making a plenum!Fingers crossed the sensor now goes in okay, though I'm pretty confident it's been welded very close to the angle I worked out. Not looking forward to refitting the exhaust, it's a pain doing it without a pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 http://www.webcon.co.uk/Downloads/Webcon%20carb%20pressure%20fuel%20pump.pdfHow would one of these perform as a low pressure pump to feed the swirl pot? (bearing in mind the swirl pot will also have the return feed from the high pressure line coming back into it and a vent to the tank at the top). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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