Check your hoses! Fuel hose warning

[Nick Jones]

Fuel hose is a bit of a tricky subject at present.  Ethanol content in modern fuel does definitely affect fuel hose rubbers and can lead to either outright failure or strong fuel smells without any actual visible leakage (permeation).

Some countries (Oz and USA for example) are on top of this and have legislated to define fuel hoses fit for use with modern biofuels or fuels with a bio component.  UK has not so your local motor factor will sell what ever they like (or Gates tells then they should sell).

My local factor sells Gates generic "injection hose".  It allows permeation (strong fuel smells) and goes hard after a few months which I discovered when EFI'ing my PI.

There is an SAE standard, J30, which defines fuel hose types and this recommends "R9" as being suitable for ethanol containing fuels.

I've been buying this for a few years, usually from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent.  However, I've recently noticed that this stuff suffers serious cracking after only a couple of years.  It's a two layer hose and the cracking seems to afflict mainly the outer layer so I've not had any actual leakage but it's only a matter of time I reckon.  Not sure whether this is a general "R9" issue of if the stuff from this supplier is rubbish.

I've actually had better results using the older "R6" hoses which I used for years on the Vitesse before "upgrading" to R9.  This time though I've swapped all 8 sections of flexi-hose in the fuel system to Cohline 2240 which is supposed to be good for ethanol up to E15 and even bio-diesel.  We shall see......

Check your hoses - A friend recently reported a scare with his E30 320i with fuel pissing from a split in the high pressure feed hose all over the alternator.......  Hose was renewed less than 3 years ago.  How a fire was avoided I have no idea 😲

Nick

[Nick Jones]

Ntxt

[npanne]

Totally agree Nick.

For the price of fuel hose, and the relative simplicity of replacing, I now consider it as a service item and change it all at the annual service. One thing you DON'T want is fuel leaking under the bonnet.

[JensH]

This spring ... in Denmark...
http://stiften.dk/alarm112/Met.....sskov/artikel/450819

http://galleri.alarm112midtjylland.dk/#!album-1004-9

Last one might have been electrical though, but the first one was fuel related.

[ferny]

Exact same issues I've been having for years. Even my R9 greenshield I got through Clive and Bill did it. I don't think the outer layer like being exposed to the elements,  which isn't a great idea on a car...

[thescrapman]

Quoted from JensH

This spring ... in Denmark...
http://stiften.dk/alarm112/Met.....sskov/artikel/450819

http://galleri.alarm112midtjylland.dk/#!album-1004-9

Last one might have been electrical though, but the first one was fuel related.

second one was an electrical fire behind the dash judging by the damage.

I also have a bonnet and bootlid off a roundtail similarly scorched at home. That was a cockpit fire.

[yorkshire_spam]

After having repeated problems with both R6 and R9 hoses I bought some of this:
http://www.gates.com/products/.....etion-fuel-line-hose
Seems to have been fine so far.

[daver clasper]

Straying a bit here, but.

Is it normally something within the electrics that ignites fuel. If so what may be the  main culprits?.

Cheers, Dave

[esxefi]

I use hard line hose where ever possible,the less rubber in the system the better IMO especially where fuel is concerned.same for cooling system,elbows and hose joiners are the only rubber bits.

[Nick Jones]

Quoted from daver clasper

Straying a bit here, but.

Is it normally something within the electrics that ignites fuel. If so what may be the  main culprits?.

Cheers, Dave

Alternators/dynamos.  Distributors.  Starter motors when operated.  Leaky HT leads.  They need the fuel/vapour to ignite though.

Agree on the hard lines.  I've not got any long "soft" runs, but quite a few short joint pieces.  Some could probably be turned into hard joints, but not all.

Nick

[Martin M]

I use Gates hoses labelled  "Multifuel".
No issues the last years.

Martin

[Roger Keys]

Quoted from Nick Jones

Fuel hose is a bit of a tricky subject at present.  Ethanol content in modern fuel does definitely affect fuel hose rubbers and can lead to either outright failure or strong fuel smells without any actual visible leakage (permeation).

Some countries (Oz and USA for example) are on top of this and have legislated to define fuel hoses fit for use with modern biofuels or fuels with a bio component.  UK has not so your local motor factor will sell what ever they like (or Gates tells then they should sell).

My local factor sells Gates generic "injection hose".  It allows permeation (strong fuel smells) and goes hard after a few months which I discovered when EFI'ing my PI.

There is an SAE standard, J30, which defines fuel hose types and this recommends "R9" as being suitable for ethanol containing fuels.

I've been buying this for a few years, usually from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent.  However, I've recently noticed that this stuff suffers serious cracking after only a couple of years.  It's a two layer hose and the cracking seems to afflict mainly the outer layer so I've not had any actual leakage but it's only a matter of time I reckon.  Not sure whether this is a general "R9" issue of if the stuff from this supplier is rubbish.

I've actually had better results using the older "R6" hoses which I used for years on the Vitesse before "upgrading" to R9.  This time though I've swapped all 8 sections of flexi-hose in the fuel system to Cohline 2240 which is supposed to be good for ethanol up to E15 and even bio-diesel.  We shall see......

Check your hoses - A friend recently reported a scare with his E30 320i with fuel pissing from a split in the high pressure feed hose all over the alternator.......  Hose was renewed less than 3 years ago.  How a fire was avoided I have no idea 😲

Nick

As i said in the 10 countries run, your hose is fake. Been there got the T shirt.

Gates barricade everytime. Ok, thats the injection version, so overkill, but it works. Doesn't degrade like yours.  I used the same company as you orginally at work. Same result. Its fake.

[thescrapman]

Roger

Are you saying the Cohline 2240 is the dodgy stuff?

[Roger Keys]

I suspect you can buy a real version of it. But anyone can get cheap R6 and print whatever they like on it. Doesn't make it any good.

But ive used it, and without exception, the same thing happened. Its is was R9 it would be fine. R9 is (was) the spec that fuel hoses on new cars need to meet. They dont break up like this.

Gates do some really good bulletins explaining the various hose specs. Google is your friend!

[Nick Jones]

The Cohline 2240 stuff is what I've replaced the (alleged) R9 with.  It seems to be single material (FPM / viton family).  It's only been on a few days so too early to tell if it'll last, but at least it doesn't stink of fuel like some hoses do.  Sold by Merlin Motorsport among others.

The R9 stuff may well be fake.  I'm going after the supplier but probably wasting my time.......  I think it may be only "half fake" though.  It works better than the Gates branded (though not "Barricade") stuff that I previously got my my local motor factor in that it doesn't stink of fuel as soon as used and remains flexible rather than going hard after 6 months.  The inner layer, which is supposed to be FPM, seems to survive whereas the outer layer which is meant to be CSM clearly suffers from heat/ozone etc, cracks up.  Real CSM is tough stuff.  

Regarding the non-barricade Gates stuff, the factors did say that no one else had complained about their hose and they sell lots of it.  Must be a lot of stinky cars waiting to burst into flames around here.  They can get the Barricade stuff but won't stock it as they reckon no one would buy it due to cost, so I'd have to buy a whole roll @ £ 100 or so.  If this Cohline stuff doesn't last I'll hunt some down.....

Nick

[Roger Keys]

The other stuff is probably R6. It will smell, the vapours pass through it. Everyone sells it, yet its useless with modern fuels!

Even gates R6 is going to be pretty useless. Its not what its for. They eve quote the permeability rates.

[daver clasper]

Looking on the net, Moss sell Gates Barricade for £7 a metre. Would this be fake do you think. (not Moss faking I must add).

Cheers, Dave

[Nick Jones]

I doubt Moss would knowingly sell fake stuff.  That's very cheap for Barricade though......  

The Cohline 2240 was double that.  It doesn't smell of fuel at all.....

Nick

[Roger Keys]

Quoted from daver clasper

Looking on the net, Moss sell Gates Barricade for £7 a metre. Would this be fake do you think. (not Moss faking I must add).

Cheers, Dave

I get barricade  direct from the importer. Its significantly more than that. But that said, mines the injection stuff.

[Nick Jones]

Mine for injection also.....

Nick

[Straight Six]

I’m confused, which frankly happens with worrying regularity. If I want to replace my fuel hose with stuff that doesn’t make the car smell of petrol, won’t degrade on the outer surface when exposed to the elements and is ethanol resistant I need to buy……. which product???

Am I missing something (probably) but if I buy fuel hose from any modern car main dealer - let’s say Ford cos that’s my nearest one - surely their hose will be of the latest spec and suitable for modern fuels? The only issue I can see is that Focuses and the like use this new-fangled metric system, but I’m sure there will be an equivalent size close enough.  

[yorkshire_spam]

For reference I paid $28 + shipping and taxes for a 25 foot length of gates barrier (non-injection) true 1/4" (not 6mm!) hose.

[Roger Keys]

Quoted from Straight Six

I’m confused, which frankly happens with worrying regularity. If I want to replace my fuel hose with stuff that doesn’t make the car smell of petrol, won’t degrade on the outer surface when exposed to the elements and is ethanol resistant I need to buy……. which product???

Am I missing something (probably) but if I buy fuel hose from any modern car main dealer - let’s say Ford cos that’s my nearest one - surely their hose will be of the latest spec and suitable for modern fuels? The only issue I can see is that Focuses and the like use this new-fangled metric system, but I’m sure there will be an equivalent size close enough.  

Gates Barricade.

You wouldn't be able to get fuel hose from a main dealer, at least not by the meter. They would just ask what hose on what car with what VIN and order accordingly.

[griffipaul]

I have also fitted choline 2240 based on a recommendations by Nigel Clark from Practical Classics . He used it on his Scimitar as being  glass fibre - fires are even more catastrophic.

[CharliesStag]

I do know one good source for fuel hose.  It's R10 and it has been proved by a few of us in another club.  The guy also sells power steering hoses to a number of big names and has come across fuel hose issues with his own cars.