KM Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 I have a Tr4a and yesterday had to put a pint of water in the rad to top it up. I didn't notice any oil in the rad at this point. It was driven about 100 miles yesterday. No obvious change in performance. Today I checked the rad to discover an oily emulsion and clear signs of oil in the rad. Again it took about a pint of water. There is definitely no water in the oil. Removed rocker cover where there is standing oil and clearly no water. With hot oil and 2,500rpm it reads 60 to 70 psi on the oil pressure gauge. The engine was re-built about 20,000 miles ago and the head was replaced as the old one had a crack. The temperature sticker was put on the left side on the block. It has never overheated. What I need to know is what the likely cause is before I decide whether I can attempt to fix it or it needs to be seen by an engine specialist. Head gasket? Crack in head, or worse block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 And it's not using oil any more than usual so the leak is slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Sounds like a head gasket problem or at worst the head. A gasket can go across one or two of the ports,especially if not tightened up on refit...or the head may be warped(not flat)Not a long job to lift the head off. Doubt its the block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 a compression check on all cylinders would be interesting before head removal as it might point to where the problem is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 A compression test would n`t really identify where water was coming from, a fracture in the gasket can occur across a water /oil port and not affect the cylinders. I had a similar problem on the Spitfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Its just that its losing water but not into the oil so I thought maybe its going into a cylinder or two and if so handy to know which ones.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Quoted from glang- Its just that its losing water but not into the oil so I thought maybe its going into a cylinder or two and if so handy to know which ones.... Then just take out the plugs/all, after leaving stood/not run for 24 hrs and put a HD tissue over the plug holes and see if and water/damp is pushed out by turning the engine over....It would push and damp out with force(if any) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 If your going to do that you might as well do a compression check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 But the opening statement....."theres no change in performance"....so not looking for bore wear, just if a fractured head gasket is leaking. Even if no damp/wet on blow out ,the head would still have to come off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 oh yes the head'll have to come off but if compressions low on 3 and 4, for example, it can help as to where to look for the failure? Well only a suggestion which I thought was pretty sensible anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyb Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I would try all the above tests before removing the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogie Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Hi Kevin, so you are losing water and there is an oily film in the rad. It runs OK. That would normally feel like head gasket blown going into a water way. However this could give other symptoms like pressuring the cooling system and blowing water out to the expansion bottle. Do you have an expansion bottle from the rad. This is a simple check list that makes me happy - retorque the head studs/nuts Drain the coolant and fill with clean water (in order to check later) After 100miles check the coolant water/rad for combustion gases. If present remove the head. If not is there any oil film. If not the retorquing may have done it. Or a quicky - remove the spark plugs and look into the tops of the pistons - the leaking cylinder - even with a very small leak can make the piston tops very clean very quickly The oil suggests it is the gasket Rather than a compression test - a leak down test may be better - both worth a go. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 It doesn't appear that the cooling system is being pressurised to any great degree. It had two trips of about 50 miles each and lost about a pint. My previous experience of significant head gasket failure is that the water leaves the radiator very quickly. It doesn't appear to be in the expansion bottle and if it did get there would it not be sucked back as the engine cools? How do you check the coolant for combustion gases? If re-torquing does it I would probably replace the gasket anyway. Unfortunately I don't have the tools for a leak down test however the results of a compression test are: 1: 196; 2: 192; 3 188; 4:190 which to me doesn't help. The plugs all look similar, see attached. #1 is over the large grommet and #4 over the small grommet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Like you say, if there's a sizeable head gasket leak between a water way and a cylinder, then you lose coolant quickly. However, you can have a small one that only loses it at moderate rate (in fact, my Spitfire appears to have that problem at the moment) but you'd see steam in the exhaust. You also wouldn't get oil in the water. You would see pressure in the cooling system but that wouldn't be obvious as the rad cap opens to release it. Some coolant gets pushed into the expansion bottle, followed by a lot of gasses, then the bottle gets emptied when the engine cools. From what you've described, and the compression figures you got, I'd say you're not looking at a water-to-cylinder leak but rather a water-to-oil one. That normally constrains it to a pretty small area - I'm not familiar with the TR4 engine but the Spitfire one only has one oil passage through the head gasket. You'd expect, then, to see water in the oil, which you say you don't have. However, two factors mitigate against that. First, the oil passage in question is right near one corner of the head, so it's likely the leak also allows coolant out to the air. Second, the oil pressure is normally higher than the water pressure until the engine is hot, by which time the water that escapes into the oil may well evaporate through the breather system rather than collecting in the sump. It's still probably a head-off and new gasket job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Any recommendations on a head gasket? Rimmers are selling standard ones for £21 and uprated ones for £110 which is a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Dont know anything about Tr4s but what do you use it for and how do you drive it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogie Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Quoted from KM- Any recommendations on a head gasket? Rimmers are selling standard ones for £21 and uprated ones for £110 which is a big difference. Hi Kevin, if you attempted a retorque of the head studs why would you consider replacing the gasket ? If you drive as per touring etc I would go for the standard gasket at £21 and I wouild get it from TRShop in Chiswick (I have no connection) If it is foot down all the way then consider the expensive one - BUT - before the expensive ones the standard gaskets did everything with only a very few failures for crazy driving. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 I put my foot down occasionally but it isn't thrashed, it's always warm before any hard acceleration. It does have a mild cam (next up from standard). There will be radio silence for the next week as I am away but will report progress on my return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Try k,seal in water,regards michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Quoted from michael- Try k,seal in water,regards michael NOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't do that! K-seal is evil stuff and doesn't even claim to work for water to oil leaks. My experience of trying it on the sort of leak it claims to be good for was that it made it worse, and sprayed pink residue all over my engine bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 K seal has always worked for me especially when I had water in oil tr3,such evil stuff ?regards michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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