thebrookster Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I am of the opinion that the clutch on my spitfire is on it's way out. The biting point on the pedal is at the very bottom of the pedal travel, and 1st and 2nd gear sometimes do not want to engage. At least, 2nd can be stiff, however 1st on occaisions will not engage unless I choose second first, then go straight up. 2nd does not like engaging unless the engine is fully at idle when it plays up. Over 1000rpm, no go. Below 1000, engages fine, tho sometimes stiff.This only seems to occur once the engine is fully warmed up, but then goes after half an hour or so.The reason I am posting this is to see a) am I right in thinking that it is the clutch is the main problem, and b) is there a method by which I can adjust the clutch in able to bring the biting point up a bit, so as to try and keep her running until April.Problem is, I intend on rebuilding the engine in April, so if I need to do any work then is the best time. I do not really want to be rebuilding anything before then. If it will not last that long I need to know now, as I only have my Vectra for a limited time frame now. I can borrow an engine crane, and I own all the tools etc, however moving the crane needs a bigger car than a spitfire :)Cheers for any helpPhil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 im pretty sure pushing the slave cylinder further into the bellhousing will raise the bite point, as the starting position of the clutch is closed up to begin with. a PO has 'modified' my slave so that it has about 3 inches of travel to choose from depending on how far i slide it into the slave cyclinder bracket. i assume this was to make up for a worn clutch. i might be wrong, thought id mention it. somebody more int he know will probably prove me wrong !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Worth a try at any rate!! Any idea is a good idea in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 here is what my slave looks like now. i might have been over exaggerating at 3" (nothign new there ;D ) but you can see what i mean, and i why i think thats the reason for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 make sure that it does not just need a bleed if you have old fluid or air in the system it will take more pedal movment to compress the fluid which will give you a lower pedal my slave cylinder has a bolt locking it in place so the bolt sets the position your's may be different i dont know.i was under the impresion on a hydraulic system when the clutch is worn the biting point raises as it bocomes worn the fluid goes down as it compensates for the wearif you say everthing is fine after half an hour of driving i would suspect it needs a good bleed and change the fluid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Aye, that thought had crossed my mind, to the extent I have just put my shoes on to go and source some fluid and fully bleed the hydraulics.Might be a while, as I am also hunting for a Tesco's (have run out of baccy, and they have some Samson in nicely priced) and investigating Die Grinders and the like as well.Cheers for the help guys :) Mucho appreciated!Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 dave - my slave once had the 'bolt sized' groove in it that locked it in place, but somebody ground away the face you can see on my cylinder so that they could tighten the clamp with the bolt further down the slave casing. i always assumed it was to make up for worn clutches..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Although it was twenty (ish)years ago when I was at collageI seem to remember A hydraulic never needs adjusting due to the fact as the clutch wears it gets thinner and the slack is taken up by fluid,which is similar to your brakes as the pads wear the fluid drops and when you put new pads in as you push the pistons back loverly brake oberflows all over placeIt's the same with the clutchHigh pedal means clutch worn Low pedal means knackerd master/slave or very old fluid/air in the systemOf coarse as it was a long time ago please correct me if am talking bol�*+s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Check that the actuating arm pivot pin is in place and in decent condition. These fall out quite often. Sometimes the clutch still works - I have no idea how it still works like that, but as my Herald did this once I definitely know it can happen.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:Check that the actuating arm pivot pin is in place and in decent condition. These fall out quite often. Sometimes the clutch still works - I have no idea how it still works like that, but as my Herald did this once I definitely know it can happen.NickMine was like this for a while when I first got it. The only signs were a long pedal and a bit of difficulty getting into third. It was still pretty driveable - I just thought the gearbox was knackered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitNoir Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Probably doesn't hurt to consider the brake and clutch pivot pins a "service item" and grease them every few years. I'm sure it's one of the things I would "think" of doing, but never really get around to until it was about to fall out from wear.On a side note, is the Spitfire 4's clutch pedal a pretty firm beast to push? Or is it relatively light, as I suspect? Reason I ask is that, although it seems to function properly, it sure is stiff!ThanksPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The first thing I would check after having a similar problem would be if the pedal return spring was in place. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drofgum Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Paul,The Spitfire4 clutch shouldn't be too tough to operate after all it is only a 6 1/4" clutch. The only thing I know of that would make it different is that it is a three finger coil spring clutch instead of the diaphragm type the later Spitfires have. Cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Not sure how the original Spitfire 4 clutch felt but certainly the aftermarket ones listed as being for these cars can be very heavy to use.I bored the slave oversize (7/8") to help a bit but still heavy. More noticeable as the years pass but that is not due to changes in the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 When you guys talk about the 'actuating arm pivot pin', are you meaning part number PJ8808 on this diagram??http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/spitfire1500clutchmastercylinder.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/spitfire1500.html&category=clutch&xsl=diagram.xslAnd if not this pin, which one are you referring to please??Cheers,Phil(who has been half way round Glasgow, found various bits etc, but not actually had any chance to work on the spitfire!! All ready for the morn though...........) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uksnatcher Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 thebrookster wrote:When you guys talk about the 'actuating arm pivot pin', are you meaning part number PJ8808 on this diagram??http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/spitfire1500clutchmastercylinder.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/spitfire1500.html&category=clutch&xsl=diagram.xslAnd if not this pin, which one are you referring to please?? Mk4/1500 spithttp://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/spitfire1500clutchhousingandoperatinglever.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/spitfire1500.html&category=gearbox&xsl=diagram.xslMk3 spithttp://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/spitfireiiigearbox.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/spitfireiii.html&category=gearbox&xsl=diagram.xslJust done my 1500 spit, part no: 129410 is the pin that can drop out.... My clutch was biting at the bottom of the pedal, 1st hard to engage, reverse crunching in mesh.....this pin was half out.! I replaced everything, the pin 129410, the tolerance ring 129412, the 2 bushes 129358 and the push rod 109182 and pin 112516 on the end of the operating arm as they were all worn out, have to do it with the gearbox removed tho...Same parts on both mk3/mk4/1500 spitfire Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Without the pedal return spring the spring inside the master cylinder is not man enough to return the piston to the correct position to get refilled with a full dose of fluid and the bite is therefore near the floor.You can tell if the master cylinder is returning fully by gripping the forked plunger and checking how far it comes out. If it does come out a lot, then try the pedal and the bite will be back up where it should be. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 How big is this pin?? Can't really tell from the pictures, but is it a short pin, or should it fill the entire hole in the bellhousing?I cannot feel a pin in there, however not knowing what I am looking for does not help matters :)Edit: To clarify my question, does this pin sit flush with the outside of the bell-housing at both ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Phil pick up your phone.... Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 thebrookster wrote:Edit: To clarify my question, does this pin sit flush with the outside of the bell-housing at both ends?yes, a mmm or so shorter each end than the hole.Sometimes substituted with an exhaust valve or similar that won't drop out.CheersColin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Right, Phil has popped round. Diagnosis is the brake fluid was 20years old(slight exaggeration) and has been bled however i feel he needs new master Cylinder seals and i would replace the slave just for good measure. There was also no return spring on the pedal. We have made a temp pedal spring which will do but i think that the seals are letting fluid passed which will now become worse as there is clean fluid in the system. £15 new master cylinder £15 new slave cylinder£2 pedal return spring. Jobs a good one. When these parts are replaced we will check the pivot and see how its doing.Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Now you have a pedal spring on, push the pedal to the floor and let it fly back. Do this a number of times, this will allow the piston to un-stick its self and return to where it should be in the bore of the cylinder. Mine took about ten fly-backs before the pedal bite came back up. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Don't know if it will, I would renew the seals and the slave cylinder and get a new pedal spring. But hey, I like it when my car doesn't break down. Some think that saving the £15 is worth breaking down. :)Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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