detecting Wheel bearing play with new felt seals

[Dan16v]

Evening all

I have recently rebuilt the front hubs on the GT6, new stub axles, bearings and felt washers etc.  When it came to setting the bearings I would them up as tight as I could, left them overnight and then backed them off, just doing them back up hand tight without a spanner.  Even with them just hand tight there is no play in the wheel.  I had heard that the new felt seals mask the bearing float thats needed to set them.

Whats the general consensus, just do them hand tight and run it around for a while and check every so often?  I'm loathed to back them off looser in case they go too loose.

[JohnD]

Dan,
Correct procedure is to do the nut up until you can feel/hear that it isn't rotating freely.
Then back off until it is, just,  and choose a position for the split pin as near to that as possible.

John

[Dan16v]

JohnD wrote:

Dan,
Correct procedure is to do the nut up until you can feel/hear that it isn't rotating freely.
Then back off until it is, just,  and choose a position for the split pin as near to that as possible.

John

John, I have always found I can do them up quite tight before any real difference in the way they rotate can be felt.  I had thought the slack was there to allow the bearing to expand and tighten up a bit once warmed up.

[heraldcoupe]

How thick is the felt? An awful lot of aftermarket felt seals are excessively thick, I would argue that they're not fit for purpose as the bearing cannot be properly loaded before the seal is completely crushed.
Thinner felt seals should be available, but you may have to shop around to find them.

Cheers,
Bill.

[Dan16v]

heraldcoupe wrote:

How thick is the felt? An awful lot of aftermarket felt seals are excessively thick, I would argue that they're not fit for purpose as the bearing cannot be properly loaded before the seal is completely crushed.
Thinner felt seals should be available, but you may have to shop around to find them.

Cheers,
Bill.

It was thicker than the old one, but the old one was rock solid it was so compacted, so not that easy to compare. I soaked the new ones overnight in oil, then put a big weight on them overnight to compress them and then wound the bearing up as tight as I could for a day to help compress it.  I got them from canleys I think. I will see if they compress a bit over time, I assume that if the bearings are too loose you would be able to feel some movement in the wheel if you give it a hard pull but just won't give the slight rocking sound that your suppose to hear

[esxefi]

I would tighten the nut up by hand fairly tight with a spanner only.

go for a gentle drive with no serious braking to introduce extra heat then check the clearance of the bearings.the seal should settle in.

I personally am not convinced by there being a clearance in taper roller bearings.
this may be why they are prone to early failure on triumphs(any clearance adds a percussion effect to the rollers resulting in localised impacting on the surface,i'm talking atomic scales here)

the best bet is to fit them with a shimmed sleeve kit to lock them up solid with minimal clearance.

if you look at modern bearing set ups they nearly all have a pre load on the taper roller bearing.even triumph stipulate this in the diffs as do all manufacturers.

i'm willing to be proved wrong here :P discuss.

[Dan16v]

esxefi wrote:

I would tighten the nut up by hand fairly tight with a spanner only.

go for a gentle drive with no serious braking to introduce extra heat then check the clearance of the bearings.the seal should settle in.

I personally am not convinced by there being a clearance in taper roller bearings.
this may be why they are prone to early failure on triumphs(any clearance adds a percussion effect to the rollers resulting in localised impacting on the surface,i'm talking atomic scales here)

the best bet is to fit them with a shimmed sleeve kit to lock them up solid with minimal clearance.

if you look at modern bearing set ups they nearly all have a pre load on the taper roller bearing.even triumph stipulate this in the diffs as do all manufacturers.

i'm willing to be proved wrong here :P discuss.

after a good 30 mile drive today you could feel a bit more play at the wheel so the felt seals seem to be compacting, I have done the bearings up a little bit tighter and see how they go with a few more miles, I rarely do long trips in it so I would have thought the bearings wouldn't get too much of a chance to overheat if a little tight.

[Dan16v]

6838 wrote:

after a good 30 mile drive today you could feel a bit more play at the wheel so the felt seals seem to be compacting, I have done the bearings up a little bit tighter and see how they go with a few more miles, I rarely do long trips in it so I would have thought the bearings wouldn't get too much of a chance to overheat if a little tight.

it seems a bit more play has developed in the drivers side, taking the disc off, the felt seal looks like it compresses fairly well and the rear bearing can sit against the face of the hub without putting much compression onto the seal.   they do look thicker than the ones that came off ..... what does everyone think, felt seal too big?

[esxefi]

was that steel cup washer sitting in the hub recess?it should be a press fit that may be why it feels so tight :-/

[Dan16v]

esxefi wrote:

was that steel cup washer sitting in the hub recess?it should be a press fit that may be why it feels so tight :-/

the old ones are a press fit, the new ones are loose in the hub and come out when you take the disc off

apart from it turning, would that effect the pre-load on the bearings?

[esxefi]

tight fit or not treat them the same.

ideally it should be tight and not spin in the hub,if it was to run dry there could be the danger of it fretting and scrapping the hub not to mention letting in dust and grime etc unlikely though.
once the seal has formed might be worth lightly bending out the washer to make it tight.

more substandard parts..... :-/

[nang]

How about fitting the hub with bearings but temporarily leave the seal out. Tighten the bearing as required to give necessary play. Mark where the nut sits in relation to the axle, pull it apart then fit the seal and reassemble to the mark you have made.  ;D
Tony.

[Dannyb]

The felt was too big on my new bearings compared to the old. I cut the felt with a razor blade around the circumference. Probably about twice as thick as the original.

[Dan16v]

1684 wrote:

The felt was too big on my new bearings compared to the old. I cut the felt with a razor blade around the circumference. Probably about twice as thick as the original.

did your thicker seal look like the one in my picture?

[Dannyb]

6838 wrote:

did your thicker seal look like the one in my picture?

Yes exactly the same

[drofgum]

nang wrote:

How about fitting the hub with bearings but temporarily leave the seal out. Tighten the bearing as required to give necessary play. Mark where the nut sits in relation to the axle, pull it apart then fit the seal and reassemble to the mark you have made.  ;D
Tony.

Tony,
I have 2 manuals that give that as the procedure for setting the front wheel bearing play. One of them is a copy of the factory workshop manual.
                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                          Paul

[Pete Lewis]

the spec is clear  0.002" to 0.008" endfloat

both will give some rock at the tyre but at 0.008" you get a lot more than you wish ,  but its right

never tight unless you want a seizure and ££££s

dont remember but have a thought some  were all selling tr7 seals for the small chassis cars

not checked the P numbers.

certainly many were hopeless oversized.

soak the old overnight and refit them

Pete

[Dan16v]

peterhlewis wrote:

the spec is clear  0.002" to 0.008" endfloat

both will give some rock at the tyre but at 0.008" you get a lot more than you wish ,  but its right

never tight unless you want a seizure and ££££s

dont remember but have a thought some  were all selling tr7 seals for the small chassis cars

not checked the P numbers.

certainly many were hopeless oversized.

soak the old overnight and refit them

Pete

I have set them so the smallest amount of play can be felt at the wheel, a few miles on it I have found gives it a little bit more play.  The old seals fell apart on me so no option to use the old ones.

Not having a whole load of luck out of the supplier of the new seals but will see how I go.  Some of the parts these days are c**p, the ball joint rubbers have already started to craze and they have only done 30 miles!

[Dan16v]

6838 wrote:

I have set them so the smallest amount of play can be felt at the wheel, a few miles on it I have found gives it a little bit more play.  The old seals fell apart on me so no option to use the old ones.

Not having a whole load of luck out of the supplier of the new seals but will see how I go.  Some of the parts these days are c**p, the ball joint rubbers have already started to craze and they have only done 30 miles!

The supplier confirmed that these larger seals do need to be cut down and that the seals have 'accidentally' gotten into the supply chain of the thinner ones but declined to comment as to why they arent a press fit.  How annoying that hours have been wasted sorting out yet another poor fitting parts!