tom horse Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Hi, I've just started work on my latest Triumph acquisition, a MK1 2000. The first thing I notice is that the clutch is exceedingly heavy in operation. It does work as it should but it takes a lot of effort to depress it. Does anyone know what the likely causes of this are and what's the easiest fix (not the radiator cap fix) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 The likely cause is that it's a Mk1 2000. The clutch is heavy on the big saloons. I don't remember off hand whether the early Mk1 has a coil spring clutch (Vitesse/Herald/Spitfire of the time did) but those are especially heavy if so. Incidentally, there's a fairly chunky return spring on the pedal. DO NOT remove this. It's necessary to ensure proper return for fluid balancing. Without it, you lose the clutch in heavy traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Hmmm, while I wouldn't argue with Rob that the big saloons can be a bit heavy in the clutch department, they shouldn't be that heavy. And goodness knows there are plenty of ways they can misbehave! - Could be close to worn out. That always makes them heavier, plus you don't get the feeling of them "going over-centre" somewhere in the upper 2/3 of the pedal travel. If you can't feel a point in the travel where it's gets a bit lighter, or it's very near the bottom, reckon on a new clutch in short-medium term. - Bushes on the cross-shaft in the bell housing may be partially seized - May have the wrong slave cylinder fitted. Some fit 7/8" instead of 1" either by accident or in an effort to get more travel so the clutch does actually release. - In combination with the above, there is a choice of holes in the operating arm where the slave cylinder push-rod attaches. The one closest to the pivot gives the most movement but the heaviest pedal and the one furthest from the pivot gives the lightest pedal but maybe gives a very low biting point or doesn't clear at all. - There is also the possibility that the dreaded taper dowel bolt that holds the release fork to the cross-shaft has partially failed, giving unfavourable angles. This, in combination with a worn out clutch plate, a 7/8" slave and the upper pivot hole selected to try a win back enough movement for the clutch to work, does give a really heavy clutch with the biting point on the floor and is how my PI came to me.... The clutch slipped whenever I could get it to run on all 6 too. - Then there is the possibility of mis-matched components internally. IIRC the lightest action combination was always considered to be the Laycock set with B & B being heavier and mixing bits between them causing problems. There are many makes out there now and various "re-manufactered" items. I fitted a LUK kit to my PI which was fine (and reasonably priced) and I believe there is a Sachs cover assembly (intended for a Saab) that gives great results. Where is your clutch biting point? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom horse Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 Thanks for the help. I'ill check things when I go back over to the car later this week. According to the PO it had a clutch fitted not so long ago, however judging by the other work that has been carried out on the car it's probably a clutch from Scammell Pioneer. Is there any way to distinguish which slave cylinder is fitted without removing/stripping it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The cross shaft pin has snapped, would put money on it. BTDT, more than once, and the latest instance had had a new clutch fitted to try to cure the heaviness. Suspect that is why it was put up for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom horse Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Well I finally got over for a look see.... Oh dear! looks like an engine and/or gbox out job. What are the chances it's just the wrong slave cylinder fitted?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Wow! That's an impressive bodge! The fact that the push-rod has been welded up longer than standard and the angle of the drop-arm suggest that Colin and Nick are spot on. You will need to get the gearbox out and dismantle the cross-shaft assembly, whereupon you will find a broken dowel pin bolt. You will need a new one, and a new (or good s/h) push-rod for the slave cylinder. You may also find other broken bits that will need replacing. While it's apart, you should replace the clutch plate and cover (although they may have been replaced recently in a failed attempt to fix the problem, as Colin said). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogie Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 That is stunning - are the welds in good condition !!!!!!😜 When you take it all down consider fitting a roll pin through the cross shaft/fork to support the taper pin. This is a standard (home) mod on all the TR models. I have a pretty standard clutch plate & cover from TRshop on my 4A and this is light compared to previous items fitted. Double up on the cross shaft bushes if you can. A touch of red grease on the plate splines and under the bearing carrier. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Does look like there could be a problem with the fork dowel...... One further possibility (like you need any more!) is that it has the wrong release bearing carrier fitted (there are a few possibilities IIRC) and the one that is in there is too short. This also gives an unfavourable angle to the drop arm. That's a very bodgy bodge you've got there. Ugly. The packing washers are also unpromising...... Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hello Roger, it may be a 'standard' modification but it is uneccessary and from an engineering viewpoint ineffective. The tapered bolt needs to be fitted properly and should seat in the cross arm. If that is not done correctly, an additional parallel pin will not be effective. The whole reason the pin,as designed, is tapered is to completely eliminate any relative movement, this is impossible with a parallel pin. Do the job properly and there will be no problems. I have had an instance of tapered pin bottoming on the head, this will not work and I had to relieve the head such that the pin sat correctly in the tapered bore. Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogie Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Hi Alec, I agree 100%. If the taper pin is engineered to fit as it should do then it will work reliably. However (there is always an however) as supplied the pins and the holes are not supplied in an acceptable condition for the best part. In order to survive the taper pin MUST be in shear only. The moment any play is allowed in the taper an amount of tensile stress is applied to the pin and eventually it will fail - no matter how good it is. How to overcome this lack of quality. 1. Use your skills to tidy up the pin and hole(s) so that only a shear force is present. 2. Fit an additional roll pin at 90 degrees. Although it is in a parallel hole the roll pin will sit quite happily as attested by 1000's of successful fitments. 3. Or do as I have done on my TR4 fit the taper pin so that it is in double shear. Machine the end of the pin with a parallel nose. Make a bush that fits this parallel nose and then fits into the blind hole in the fork above where the pin fits. Screw the pin into its position and it is then supported at the thread end and the nose end. 4. weld the fork to the shaft - desperation. The TRiumph design is good if engineered correctly. Sadly to many cases of bad quality parts. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom horse Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Thanks for the replies. I'll order a complete set of bits and renew the lot. I'm not sure when this will be done as I have a shed load of other stuff to do. Just wait until you see the photos of the carbatooters. I think the PO or whoever 'worked' on it before was practicing for, 'Bodged in Fire, Life or Death'. We won't mention the silicon around the windscreen or the wrong brake master cylinder. I would call it a pig in a poke but the pig got up and left in disgust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 If the silicon round the screen is keeping the water out leave it be for now. leaky screens kill 2000's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom horse Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 It's not, I had a swimming pool in the front footwells after a short but heavy shower. There is a new rubber waiting to go in. I'm beginning to wonder if I might be best stripping it down and rebuilding it properly. It was stripped down to the bare shell, blasted, repainted and rebuilt a couple of years ago. But the number of bodges is starting to worry me. The throttle linkage had a jubilee clip to compress the small clamp as it had been over tightened so much the end on the rod had opened up, so to fix it they forced it close with the jubilee clip. That bodge is now gone but then I noticed the carbatooters and had a FFS! moment. Please take note of the Hi-pressure cable ties to secure the fuel hose and the hi-tech gasket replacement. I'm reliably informed that the brake pads are not made of plasticine and there is no truth in the rumour that the fuel pump packed in and the fuel was re-routed through the windscreen washer pump. (I will be checking just incase) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 some good clues and pics of up grade pin ideas on Buckeye https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/clutch clutch loads if the disc is thin the pedal loads go up as the clamp loads reduce disc thickness clamped ( nipped in a vice) is 0.290" to 0,270"(min) Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteStupps Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Quoted from tom horse- It's not, I had a swimming pool in the front footwells after a short but heavy shower. There is a new rubber waiting to go in. I'm beginning to wonder if I might be best stripping it down and rebuilding it properly. It was stripped down to the bare shell, blasted, repainted and rebuilt a couple of years ago. But the number of bodges is starting to worry me. The throttle linkage had a jubilee clip to compress the small clamp as it had been over tightened so much the end on the rod had opened up, so to fix it they forced it close with the jubilee clip. That bodge is now gone but then I noticed the carbatooters and had a FFS! moment. Please take note of the Hi-pressure cable ties to secure the fuel hose and the hi-tech gasket replacement. I'm reliably informed that the brake pads are not made of plasticine and there is no truth in the rumour that the fuel pump packed in and the fuel was re-routed through the windscreen washer pump. (I will be checking just incase) Who did you buy this off?! It must be a man who was in a hurry. No time to buy actual parts so just uses whatever is lying around. I hope you've had a good look a the brake lines to check he hasn't used bendy straws and gaffer tape anywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Quoted from tom horse- I'm reliably informed that the brake pads are not made of plasticine and there is no truth in the rumour that the fuel pump packed in and the fuel was re-routed through the windscreen washer pump. (I will be checking just incase) I have mentioned it before, but it bears repeating, it is possible to make passable brake master cylinder seals from silicone bathroom sealant. Not convinced of their longevity, but they were quickly changed. It would be worth a check to see if your DPO used the same garage as mine did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Good luck, and I agree with the previous comments, probably worn cross-shaft bushes and a broken pin. Just one note the 7/8" slave is correct for the 2000, the 1" slave is for the PI (and 2.5S) which had a heavier clutch pressure plate when new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom horse Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 I know it's been ages since I discovered this problem but I've only just found the time for engine G/box removal. The pin wasn't broken, however the hole in the shaft was oval, the shaft bearings were gubbed. It actually looks like someone has twatted them with a screwdriver and hammer in an attempt to close the gap up. The spring on the end of the shaft is missing, it has the wrong release bearing carrier fitted and that is mutilated. On a positive note the clutch itself looks fairly new. So ever fitted it probably thought " Now would be a good time to apply one of my world famous bodgies to the clutch mechanism" Given all that it will come as no surprise when I tell you the parcel shelves are held in place with 1 1/4" wood screws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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