Sat Navs and Navman POI file

[cook1e]

Someone at the drivers meeting asked about Grid ref co-ordinates for sat navs, there was a bit of a discussion lead by Tim and Nigel after that about the fact that you should be able to navigate using the roadbook and a good map.

I tend to agree, however I do also like to have a sat nav on board for  afew reasons:-
1.  Just in case there is a problem finding the control.
2. The fact that it gives an accurate speed reading.
3.  The fact that it warns about speed cameras.
4.  The fact that some (like mine) will re-route you around traffic jams (this worked a treat on the last RBRR when we hit the big jam on the A1)
5. The fact that you can see the route ahead which is really useful in the dark, especially for confirming that the road is straight and safe for overtaking (I found this really useful on the A9).
6.  The fact that it gives an indication of an ETA (although the route in the road book may be different the closer you get to the control the more accurate the ETA).
7.  If you are running late and need to make up time it's good to use a satnav to find the fastest route as oppossed to the route in the roadbook.

Noting that Dale is going to issue a "tom tom" itinerary route file complete with way points this is not a lot of use to me as I have a Navman which uses a different format and only allows a maximum of 10 waypoints. Because of this I've knocked up a Navman file, this only has the controls as I'm not too bothered about way points as I'll use the roadbook and a map as the primary means of navigation.

In doing this one thing I found is that you need to beware of using the post codes in the road book for your satnav, the post codes are the nearest post code to the control and may not always actually be that close to the control in rural areas (sugar loaf is a good example). Also note that the Lancaster services post code takes you to the Northbound services when we are travelling southbound! Therefore I've used the longitude and latitude grid references. The references are in some cases aligned to the nearest bit of public road as the satnav couldn't recognise a couple of the control points that were off the public roads (Sugarloaf is an example again as is Bude).

Anyway, the file is enclosed for your use! If you have another brand of Satnav I can recommend some free software that will convert files between brands (or be used to produce POI files), it's called POIedit.

[James]

I would add:

8 ) it's a reliability challenge not a navigation rally
9 ) it saves waking up your codriver to ask for directions when they should be getting some sleep

[Howard]

Thanks for  navman file
Howard

[Jason]

I also found a really useful piece of software called TYRE (trace your route everywhere) that converts between formats but most usefully integrates with Google Earth and the aerial photos therein for extreme accuracy!

I'm a long term sat nav users but I do like a map, that said, I've done a RBRR with no satnav, no map and just the road book - no issues and a strangely liberating experience :-)

The big downside with satnav is that you become reliant upon it and follow it blindly, people can disconnect their brains and go round in circles. More than a few have used way points and, not actually understanding how they work, driver close to one only to be redirected round in ever decreasing circles because Tom Tom isn't satisfied that you've actually passed through the way point! Seriously frustrating but easily solved.

It's a really good idea to sit down with a map and the road book and trace your route with a highlighter - helps you focus on landmark place names and get used to the route. Think about where the fuel stops are, where the driver changes might be, etc.

All that said, my sat nav will be in the car, as will a road book and a marked map :-)

[Deleted User]

I use a Tom Tom to help me round the route.

However, if you intend to use a sat nav or use someone else's route waypoints then make sure that you are completely confident in:

1.  The use of the sat nav.  2:00am in the morning is not a good time to try and work out the functions on the sat nav.
2.  That the instructions you've downloaded actually work.  An example of this is just north of Royston, your sat nav will want to take you up towards Cambridge and the M11 when the route actually takes you along the A1198.  Strategically positioned waypoints will sort this out but you have to follow the route beforehand using the satnav route instructions map at home to make sure it doesn't take you in ever decreasing circles.
3.  Itinery planning on satnavs - if you actually know how to use it.  Some require you to physically cancel waypoints after you've passed through them.  Failure to do this results in the ever decreasing circles syndrome.
4.  Making sure that you either set up the next section of the route on the satnav for your co-driver or he is equally confident as you in the use of the satnav.  What's the point of having a satnav to let you get some sleep if your co-driver keeps waking you up cause he's pressed the wrong button, again, on the satnav.

Nothing, though, will beat a good marked roadmap.

Even better, plan your route well ahead of the event.

I have spreadsheets that I'll staple into the roadbook giving me times for controls, locations of driver changes, locations of fuel stops, average speeds to be achieved and loads of other stuff so that when I'm half asleep and my co-driver wakes me up, I don't have to think too much - it's all previously worked out.

You may think that this is a bit extreme but I come from a rallying background where service schedules, routes etc. had to be planned in advance so that rally car and service crews would meet up and work as a team.

No point having the most reliable Triumph on the event if you end up lost and chasing your tail in ever decreasing circles as you run out of petrol looking for a garage in the middle of the night.

Jim.

[Craig Gingell]

I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade, and I see no problem using a sat nav for the reasons highlighted above.

However, if all you do is download someone elses POI file and follow it without question, then you are missing out a HUGE part of taking part in an event such as the RBRR or 10CR.

You may as well stop off at the first motorway services and make your way to the games area and sit on one of the car racing games for 48 hours.

Take an hour out, sit down with the road book, an atlas and a highlighter pen and mark the route out YOURSELF.

Failing that, sit down with your sat nav and if necessary the user guide and program the route YOURSELF.

Craig

[cook1e]

Craig,

I agree, which is one of the reasons I produced my own POI file rtaher than wait for Dale's and try and convert it. I found it useful going through google maps and identifying the control points and finding suitable co-ordinates especially for the new control stops as this all helps with familiarisation of the route.

However, having put the work in (it did take a couple of hours, especially testing and refining the co-ordinates as the sat nav was not able to route to some of my first attempt!), I thought it only right to share the file on the forum....

[Goody]

Take heed on the above advice!  We had 3 Tom Tom's on the last 10CR.  One outdated, One allways seemed to have the wruong destination and I did not know how to cancell the way points on mine.  My team did not use any Sat/Nav on the last RBRR.  Since I do most of the late night driving I like to see what the road is doing ahead while my team sleeps.  While my team has the road book already I will not see any of it till I arrive in Luton Wednesday.  

Don't do as one team did:  They saw the 3 Sat/Nav's on our windscreen, they were lost and followed us!  That also made us think we were on course.

[Clive]

And thankyou Mr Cookie!

Used your one last time, very simple to pop on my garmin, worked a treat (but only got half way with it :B)
Will be using again, as long as talk-talk actually fix my internet connection (9 days and counting. Fixed soon they keep saying) Luckily working at skool today, got the kids working so a chance to surf. should have brought a memory stick with me.

[Velocita Rosso]

As in the 10Cr and HCR, Ive sat down for 2 days and hi-lited the roads on a road map,day glo post-it notes advising of next page on map,(so you can see at night)ditto for control stops and hi-lited the major road numbers. I have a sat nav and that will only be for road contour guidance.As for direction, the road book and map is all you really need. Otherwise good old Nigel may aswell have just said `head north to JOG and south west for LE and then head home.
SATNAV` s are really good for some things but......  

[Howard]

I fully second Cook1e's original post. Sat Navs are a very useful adjunct to a good map and most certainly assist in finding the more obscure halts. However following them blindly is silly - for example in the last RBRR the location of Lancaster services had been wrongly entered & if followed we would have missed the free entertainment :)

[cook1e]

Howard,

You're right about the entertainment at Lancater, my sat nav has a POI file for nightlife areas, do you think Lancaster services is listed  >:(

[Goody]

The entertainment by "Tim" was great!  Anyone take pictures?

[Howard]

cook1e wrote:

Howard,

You're right about the entertainment at Lancater, my sat nav has a POI file for nightlife areas, do you think Lancaster services is listed  >:(

If you have a sat nav with that feature like that I want one! ;)

[GT6DavidMK1]

We had a satnav last RBRR, but was only used for checking for camera's or road number's and the drive through Wales Excellent!!! ;D

David.

[patbarber]

I like the SatNav idea.  I am using a TomTom and Tyre to layout the waypoints from the route.  The pre-work allows me to get an understanding of what has changed and what to look out for.  Using Tyre to find the exact waypoint locations allows the details from the route book to soak in.  I will back up with the Map book, but it is not the same because the detail is not there.

Another Trick is to name the waypoints exactly the same as they are in the routebook, turn the voice guidance down and the SatNav gives you the name of the next waypoint and the distance to the waypoint, just like a good navigator would.  

[TwoFiveEss]

Hi,

This is our first RBRR. I sat down over the last three nights marking out the atlas. There are a couple of halts where I'm a bit fuzzy. The exact locations are not marked on my atlas, so will rely on the route book to make the right turns.

Our TomTom is a Start2, i.e. pretty much the most basic one in the range, but very new. It's easy to use, but have never manually pre-plotted a route on it and don't even know if its possible.

Anyway, I would appreciate being able to download a file if that will work, so: who's got one and how do I get it?

Cheers,

[cook1e]

Dale was saying at the drivers brief that he was going to put together a TOM Tom intinery file. My Navman file could be conveted using POI edit to Tom Tom format but if Dale is producing a Tom Tom one anyway it may be simplest to use his when he issues it.

[Tim Bancroft]

Ellis is producing the TomTom route file.

The only stop that will prove to be interesting is Sugar Loaf picnic stop near Llandovery. The post code given for that in the road book is wrong, a picnic area does not have a postcode. Follow the road and look for the the CLUB TRIUMPH banner, it will be prominently displayed. The turning will be on the left hand side of the road. As this is a snag Nigel is running the Control.
This will be prominently mentioned within the FINAL INSTRUCTIONS.

The only reason I see for using Sat Nav is for whe the co-driver gets his head down. Still a dammed useful back up tool.

[Deleted User]

Sugar Loaf car park entry road.

Will look a bit different in the dark!

Note the brown picnic area tourist sign on the right as a marker for locating the road in addition to Club Triumph signs.

Jim.

[Deleted User]

The Carmarthenshire sign is located only a few hundred yards before the Sugar Loaf access road.

Slow down after this sign to avoid overshooting the entrance.

Jim.

[TwoFiveEss]

Okay, thanks, I'll keep a lookout for Dale's file.
Having looked at the specs for our TomTom Start2, it would seem that it's not possible to program a detailed route. However it may import one that someone else has made so I shall try that.
I'll be relying on the route book though.
Cheers,

[cook1e]

timbancroft61 wrote:

Ellis is producing the TomTom route file.

The only stop that will prove to be interesting is Sugar Loaf picnic stop near Llandovery. The post code given for that in the road book is wrong, a picnic area does not have a postcode. Follow the road and look for the the CLUB TRIUMPH banner, it will be prominently displayed. The turning will be on the left hand side of the road. As this is a snag Nigel is running the Control.
This will be prominently mentioned within the FINAL INSTRUCTIONS.

The only reason I see for using Sat Nav is for whe the co-driver gets his head down. Still a dammed useful back up tool.

Co-ordinates for the entrance to the sugarloaf picnic area are in my PO File they are 52.0727 & -3.69706 , this will take you right there using a sat nav, as you say it doesn't have a post code, the post code in the raod book will be to the nearest building whoch will be some distance away what with the picnic area being in the middle of nowhere!

[Hurricane 1600]

Please can someone PM me the Coordinates of the control stops

many thanks

Toby

[Howard]

If you down load cook1e's Navman file and open in with Excel or Open Office, the coordinates are there :)