molten Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Just want to know if this is possible or if its not worth doing even if it is possible?Thoughts welcomeThanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Short answer: no.Longer answer: still noNick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Nick_Jones wrote:Short answer: no. Longer answer: still noNickYou need to brush up on your people skills Nick :PThanks.Want to look onto my 3 rail d-type box as it making a little noise whilst driving.Anyone know what I might fondbthat would explain the noise?Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Hello Molten, the probable cause is worn bearings, not too hard a job to do.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Nick_Jones wrote:Short answer: no.Longer answer: still no ;DEven longer answer: Yes, but, only after you have stripped it down and replaced the mainshaft with an O/D mainshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Cheers guyswill look into the possibility of renewing the bearings and the feasibility of exchanging the main shaft toocheers guys.Don't like to hear the word 'no' even when its true ;)Just raises a challenge to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Richard_B wrote: ;DEven longer answer: Yes, but, only after you have stripped it down and replaced the mainshaft with an O/D mainshaft. It's worse than that. With single rail box the gear change remote attaches to lugs on the J-type OD casting. These are not even present on all J type castings (Guess how I know that!!) and were NEVER present on D type castings. So yes, you could transfer all the internals and D type from the 3 rail (though goodness knows why you'd want to) but you still wouldn't be able to change gear.....Alternatively, you could buy a special big-tip D type OD mainshaft (IF they even exist) and use the single rail components to build up an OD box in the 3 rail casing...... maybe.Easier (and probably more accurate) to just say NO! "People skills need brushing up"...... ya cheeky monkey! :P Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 :B :B Oh bugger, :B :B :B :B read the title next time Richard :B :B :B :B :B :B :B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocita Rosso Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 2597 wrote:You need to brush up on your people skills Nick :P...but he`s good at supplying Ibuprofen ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Thanks fellas.I am sure your people skills are fine when talking to people and not typing to them Nick ;)My 3 rail box just seems to be making some type of noise like a scraping noise which makes me thing 'release bearing' as has been said.But i am noticing a smell that smells a little like waxoyl and that doesnt sound like release bearing.Bit disapointed really as all the bench tests on this box were fine and O/D works fine. I am tempted to bite the bullet and buy a j-type box but dont want to fall foul of this type of thing with another box, which is quite possible.This leads me to thought of buying a rebuild kit for 3 rail O/D box from paddocks or the like and just rebuild the damb thing.I am pretty good with mechanicals but never rebuilt one of these boxes before... How difficult is it to strip out and rebuild? :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Noises are often layshaft pins. This is from a local who has built a few.......And new pins are "variable" in quality. Record for one was under 3 miles, it had no hardening. Supplier gave a refund for the part cost. Since then he only uses good used pins, though they are getting harder to find.Long and short, good non-od boxes are very useful as sources of spares. Often cheap as chips, and way better than using new bits. Not sure about synchros now, but again new ones were horrific. Long and short, don't assume a rebuild kit will solve the issues. Strip and check what is required first, before fitting a whole load of parts of unknown origin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thanks for your advice clive.I have a non overdrive single rail spare box. Are there any 'same' parts used in this box that will be ok on a threerail box or are they not interchangeable?Thanksscott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMaze Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hi Scott,depends on the boxes you've got.4-syncro 3-rail and early single rail (before reverse changed) do have a lot of parts in common.cheers,Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Today i stripped out the seats and gearbox cover and removed rhe gearbox.The oil that was only installed a few months ago, was metalic upon draining.What I found was1) roller bearing housing split in half.2) mainshaft tip has serious wear where roller bearings contact.3) roller bearings worn to match wear on mainshaft tip (like a stretched teardrop).4) sincro face wear at 4th gear.5) Bush wear on central rail.Layshaft seams okWill post pick of mainshaft tip wear for feedback as replcemwnt shaft may make rebuild pointless costwise unless i can pick up a cheap d-type mainshaft!!Here we go again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hope these pics come out ok of mi mobile.Thought please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Pic is fine..... but shows bad things :(That is a very common failure point. Mainshaft is scrap IMO. There are those who either grind them down and sleeve them (risk of outright breakage due to reduced size) or even bore out and fit an insert (either insert not hard enough and wears quickly or just comes loose). Would not want that myself.The 4th gear synchro wear is caused by the excess movement resulting from the knackered bearing.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hi Nickthanks for posting.Could the mainshaft be repaired by appling weld to the tip then turning down to dimension on lathe?If not, i will eitjer need to pick up spare or as you say scrap it and get another box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I would say that is even harder to do properly than the two "repairs" mentioned above. Probably worth giving Dave at Canleys a ring to see if new shafts are available. Trouble with buying more gearboxes is that quite a high proportion will be like the one you have!You also need to look inside the input shaft where the needle roller bearing runs. The originals would have run directly on a ground surface and are lubricated by oil holes drilled from outside. However, once this surface gets worn/chewed they are often replaced with a drawn-cup ("Torrington") type roller pack - this seems to be what you were describing earlier? These don't usually last very long - mostly because they loose the extra lubrication from the oil holes which are blocked by the outer casing.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 The Torrington bearing was standard in the early boxes and, as said, this is not a surprising result from running small diameter, un-caged rollers on a shaft with lateral loadings, which, by design, must apply uneven loading over the length of the rollers. (Hence I change to bronze bushes. Not to the liking of many, if any, members on this forum)The uneven loading causes the rollers to not run parallel to the shaft centre, imparting a degree of skidding and the angle causes loading on the tips and centres of the rollers.The amount of wear on that tip makes a repair unlikely.Some may weld, metal spray or sleeve, but risky. For my own, personal use, I would apply a sleeve at red heat, whilst rotating in a lathe and peining it to comply, to get a good solid shrink fit. ( this is rather a busy procedure, using a torch and hammer at the same time whilst working on a lathe) Next machine it and use a bush.Have only ever done this once for another person's car, an MGB. They have a larger tip, but this one had had a sleeve fitted by someone which had moved and really caused some mischief.I would not do this to a Spit box for someone else or recommend that it be done. Result depends on how well it is done and we are all capable of making blunders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ok gents. ThanksLooks like my only real option is a replacement mainshaft!Will have to check canleys etc.Cheersscott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Anyone know if paddocks o/d gearbox rebuild kits are any good, quality-wise?Dont think they do d-type mainshaft tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 OD mainshaft is tkc923, unless you upgrade to a mainshaft 18mm spigot this typical failure will return again in the futurebear in mind this design started with the standard eight and it the weak point .Mike Paporth can supply mainshaft and stem gears with the big spigot Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molten Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 peterhlewis wrote:OD mainshaft is tkc923, unless you upgrade to a mainshaft 18mm spigot this typical failure will return again in the futurebear in mind this design started with the standard eight and it the weak point .Mike Paporth can supply mainshaft and stem gears with the big spigot PeteHi PeteThanks for the info mate.Gears look ok. Do stem gears require replacing to accomodate the bigger 18mm dia of HD mainshaft?I am selling this car and just dont want to sell with any problems hence the possible rebuild. As such I dont want to go to the added expense of a heavy duty mainshaft at £200 a pop plus £100 for rebuild kit!A standard rebuild (original part mainshaft) will be sufficient unless I find a suitable alternative box.Cheers mateyBut if I was keeping, I would def use HD mainshaft with 18mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 18mm tip mainshaft used the same gears. The bore inside the input shaft for the pilot bearing needs to be increased though.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboyfat Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 2597 wrote: As such I dont want to go to the added expense of a heavy duty mainshaft at £200 a popI think you must have been quoted x2 on that, it should be more like;http://www.canleyclassics.com/searchforapart/?desc=&ptno=tkc923hd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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