Bainzy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Just trying to get a list together for when I eventually get enough spare cash to do a cam and head change, of all the extra items like sundries or specialist tools I'd need. The head would be ported, etc, skimmed to around 10.5:1 and the cam is a brand new Newman one with their fancy uprated followers.So far I've got on the list: Head gasket Cam lube New timing chain Timing cover gasket (but not front oil seal, I put a new one in recently) Water pump gasket Dial gauge Can anyone think of anything else I'd need (and therefore have to price in)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hello Bainzy, do you have a degree wheel?Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 You might want to convert it to duplex timing chain? Easy enough on the 1500 - you just use the 2500 parts. I'd have another front seal too - they are not expensive and can leak if disturbed.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Make up a piston stop, to help find TDC.Even with a dial gauge, the piston rests at the top of the stroke through a significant number of degrees. Deciding where TDC is can be a problem. But half way up the stroke, the piston is moving maximally for every degree.Stop the piston about halfway up the bore - the absolute point doesn't matter.Then reverse it and stop at the same point from the other direction.Note, using your degreeing wheel, where that is, and TDC is exactly halfway between.You need a mechanical stop to be accurate. A plate or bar across the bore, between head studs, with a bolt through it down into the bore, will do the job. Can't send you a pic at this moment - I'm skiving at work - but if you ask I can do so from home.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6 M Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 What ever ye get, dont get too stiff a springs, they,l just wear yer cam oot.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Alec - no, will a PC printer job suffice?Nick - thought about that, could be wrong but I'm not sure it's worth it on a spit. From what I gather its quite necessary on a 6 if you've got a PI metering unit and fuel pump adding load to the cam, but on mine the only extra load would be from the dizzy shaft that's spinning my cam sensor. It'd be less likely to break, but it would also add quite a bit of rotational weight to the engine. And if I don't shell out £££ for a vernier one, there's less precision in it.John - thanks that sounds really useful, pic appreciated :)Marcus - standard springs as its not goin to be revving over the redline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hello Bainzy,I don't see why not, the larger the diameter that's physically practical the better. It will obviously need a hard backing so you can bolt it to the crankshaft.Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Man Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Bainzy wrote:Marcus - standard springs as its not goin to be revving over the redline.It's not just the rpm you have to worry about, with more lift and duration on the cam the valves will be opening faster at the same rpm. It might be worth asking Newman if they have any recommendations Re duplex timing chain, your new cam will increase the load on the chain as it has more lift. Your argument with the increased weight is valid but it's rotating at half engine speed so maybe not as relevant as you think.Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thanks Alec.Gordon, I'm not sure the TR5 profile actually has more lift than the standard 1500 cam, if it does I don't think it'd be significantly more. Depending whose quoting the specs it's either .360" (ie same) or .378 (hardly a huge increase). Guess it depends how Newman grind them.As opposed to aftermarket grinds which tend to increase the lift to get more flow, that just gets more flow from the increased duration and has quite a big overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainzy Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share Posted September 15, 2013 I'm getting my head round this but have a few more questions:1) In the factory manual where the dots on the crank gearwheel, cam gearwheel and front engine plate line up, so you can get them aligned in relation to each other, is that also supposed to be TDC?2) Am I correct in thinking that once I've found TDC, I can keep the crank where it is, then move the camshaft with two pushrods in place in followers 7 and 8 (for Cyl #4), and set that where the two pushrods are at equal lift?3) Alternatively, it appears I can time the cam by finding TDC on the crank, turning the engine clockwise around 100-odd degrees and then setting the cam in a position where maximum lift occurs on inlet #1. But what would the installation figure be for a camshaft ground to TR5 spec? 105? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotoflex Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 That_Man wrote:It's not just the rpm you have to worry about, with more lift and duration on the cam the valves will be opening faster at the same rpm. It might be worth asking Newman if they have any recommendationsThat is what I found. When I put in my fun-enriched cam, I broke a few of the standard valve springs (7 hours from home of course). I then put in 2-piece uprated springs, which worked well over the intervening years, but Marcus may have nailed why my cam is now flattened in spots - the springs may have been *too* stiff. So the advice to ask Newman to keep from going too far in either direction is good advice.Lobe lift did go from .227" OE to .278 replacement cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 JohnD wrote:Make up a piston stop, to help find TDC.Even with a dial gauge, the piston rests at the top of the stroke through a significant number of degrees. Deciding where TDC is can be a problem. But half way up the stroke, the piston is moving maximally for every degree.Stop the piston about halfway up the bore - the absolute point doesn't matter.Then reverse it and stop at the same point from the other direction.Note, using your degreeing wheel, where that is, and TDC is exactly halfway between.You need a mechanical stop to be accurate. A plate or bar across the bore, between head studs, with a bolt through it down into the bore, will do the job. Can't send you a pic at this moment - I'm skiving at work - but if you ask I can do so from home.JohnA Little tip (from MOSS), a bmw mini wheel bolt is the same thread as a spark plug and makes an excellent piston stop for finding tdc in conjunction with a timing disc. I got one on ebay for £1.25 with free postage.Also don't buy a timing degree wheel, just download and print one off from the internet, plenty available, I used this one:- http://www.gabma.us/tools/DegreeWheel.bmpLastly, if you search on youtube there is a really good set of 3 video tutorials by MOSS on how to set up valve timing.Here's a link to the first one:-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvg1RKqexco&list=PL272A5378FCE985B8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Man Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Bainzy wrote:1) In the factory manual where the dots on the crank gearwheel, cam gearwheel and front engine plate line up, so you can get them aligned in relation to each other, is that also supposed to be TDC?This should only be done if reusing the original components, if you have replaced anything you must re-time the cam. If it is a true TR5 profile then it should be possible to time it as per the Triumph manual. Does anyone have a TR5 workshop manual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 You shouldn't need a manual to time the cam, just follow the MOSS videos that I linked to earlier. I replaced both camshaft sprockets on my GT6 and the new sprockets had no marks so I had to set it up from scratch and using the videos as a guide it was a breeze.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2500 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 cook1e wrote:...just follow the MOSS videos that I linked to earlier...I didn't know about these so thanks for pointing them out. I know my way around most of the mechanical stuff on my Triumphs but I'm still a relative novice when it comes to doing stuff with engines and I learned more in the half-hour or so I spent watching these videos than I did in the entire 1980s and early 90s with the stuff we had available to us back in the days before the interwebthingy ??) :B :B ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cook1e Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I know Bill, they are good aren't they, I only stumbled upon them by chance when I was trying to find out how to set the cam timing on my car earlier this year. I've had Triumphs for over 30 years but had never had to set up the valve timing from scratch before this year. The Mini wheel bolt as a TDC piston stop is a really good tip ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotoflex Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I have always wanted Senor Pepe to be a guest star on a Moss Motors videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaB3MuHfvPI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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