Crazy engine conversion?

[yorkshire_spam]

Although I'm happily playing with the Spitfire at the moment I'm also doing a bit of a thought experiment in terms of getting a Stag  for restoration/conversion.

Thinking about Engine+manual gearbox. X30XE GM engine with a GM R28 (basically lifted out of an Omega)

X30XE 3.0 V6:
208 hp (155 kW) @ 6000
199 lb·ft (270 N·m) @ 3400

Triumph 3.0 V8
145 bhp (108 kW) @5500 rpm
170 lb·ft (230 N·m) @3500 rpm

[table]
[tr][td]R[/td][td]R28[/td][td]Stag[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]3.807:1[/td][td]2.995:1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]2.106:1[/td][td]2.100:1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]1.335:1[/td][td]1.386:1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]1.0:1[/td][td]1.000:1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]0.814:1[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Leaving aside the huge issues of physically fitting it and piping it up and wiring it and arranging a prop shaft and all the millions of other things....
Thoughts?
My initial thought is that 1st looks a bit on the low side gearbox wise. Power looks a bit on the hot side and torque looks good.

[TedTaylor]

Neh, stick something really worthwhile in like a 5.7 small block Chevvy with 370 bhp (or more) ......... just so happens I have one spare kicking around .........(whistle)

Ted

[Nick Jones]

Wondered about that one myself...... in a saloon.  Sump's tricky!

I think the 3L V6 is auto only except for a few police spec cars?  Suppose the 2.5 box could be fitted.

In fact, for the aggro, I reckon the Lexus LS400 V8.  That's been done already in Oz.  Enough grunt and decent autobox fitted.  Conversion kits also exist to fit the W58 or R154 manual 5 speeds.  Might need some rear-end mods.....

Nick

[yorkshire_spam]

Nick_Jones wrote:

Wondered about that one myself...... in a saloon.  Sump's tricky!

I think the 3L V6 is auto only except for a few police spec cars?  Suppose the 2.5 box could be fitted.

In fact, for the aggro, I reckon the Lexus LS400 V8.  That's been done already in Oz.  Enough grunt and decent autobox fitted.  Conversion kits also exist to fit the W58 or R154 manual 5 speeds.  Might need some rear-end mods.....

Nick

3L manuals are not common, but there are a few out there. For that torque I'd look for a 3/3.2 box, the R28 rather than the R24 (280Nm torque rating rather than 240Nm)

re:sump - good point.... hmmm maybe a dry sump? Wonder if the 2.5 Vectra sump would fit - IIRC it's smaller/more compact

Nice low mileage donor: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130785951875

[Pom Down Under]

Now come on Ted, that's as silly as me suggesting the Mk IV Humber Super Snipe 4 litre engine that I have laying around spare - almost unbreakable AND so much torque available. Bloody thing is bigger and heavier than the 330 diesel engine that was in my Bedford bus!!      :D


Not forgetting the Holden Commodore 3.8 litre V6 of course.     :B    ;)    I might also add  (whistle)

[Richard B]

Just build a 32 valve Stag engine.  :D

[CharliesStag]

32V Stag sounds like a plan!  I can imagine it would be a little top endy on the basis that the Stag engine IMO is a keen revver for its time :).

If I were going to choose an alternative engine for the Stag it would either be the Ford Small Block or the Lexus V8 :).  Both are tough, have plenty of spares/accessories for them in addition to being endlessly tunable :).  They also sound 'right' :).

[TedTaylor]

1379 wrote:

Now come on Ted, that's as silly as me suggesting the Mk IV Humber Super Snipe 4 litre engine that I have laying around spare - almost unbreakable AND so much torque available. Bloody thing is bigger and heavier than the 330 diesel engine that was in my Bedford bus!!      :D


Not forgetting the Holden Commodore 3.8 litre V6 of course.     :B    ;)    I might also add  (whistle)

Done with a saloon - see report in Triumph World earlier this year - it is small block Chevvy which is about the weight of a Rover V8 :)

Ted

[StagNL]

Quad cam 32 valve V8, 4 litre.

Quote:

in the non-turbocharged form, it produced 250 to 300 hp depending of the version. Maximum torque was around 300-320 Nm

Not east to get yer mitts on one though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_V8

[yorkshire_spam]

I know the proposed set up is not "the ultimate" in terms of bhp or torque, but I was looking for something with a reasonably priced donor vehicle, a modern engine with a good replacement parts supply. Plus I've worked on GM V6 engines in the past

[JohnD]

Only four lires?
Pah!

This is what you need:
6 ltre "Hellfire" engine in the recent wheel driven world speed record breaker.

JOhn

[JimEB]

JohnD wrote:

Only four lires?
Pah!

This is what you need:
6 ltre "Hellfire" engine in the recent wheel driven world speed record breaker.

JOhn

Only 6 litres?

Pah!  ;) :P

I regularly drive cars with 6.6 or 6.75 litre V12 engines.  One prototype car I drove many years ago had a 9 litre V16 lump in it  8)

[Pom Down Under]

So that's the answer then?

Take the engine out of my Humber, couple it up with the spare engine and I'd have 12 cylinders + 8 litres of very heavy metal.   :D

[AlanChatterton]

Richard_B wrote:

Just build a 32 valve Stag engine.  :D

Someone was planning this a long time ago.

Richard someone from Seattle up in Yorkshire wanted to build one. Apparently a 16v Dolly Sprint head would fit on one head of a Stag V8 engine, and he was having a mirror image one cast for the other side.

Then he did a runner owning loads of money and it all went wrong.

So I guess nothing ever came of it......... interesting thought though.

[StagNL]

The biggest trouble I see with the idea of mirroring a Sprint head is that the camshaft also gets mirrored.  That means getting one made which isn't the hardest thing in the world to achieve.  The hardest bit is to get it to rotate in the other direction (counter clockwise as seen from front of engine) in relation to the other rotating parts. Get that solved nicely and you're on a road somewhere.  Therein lies the challenge - to do so nicely with both banks with (near) equal load on rotating mass and timing gear.  Yes, the original setup doesn't have that either and in my opinion is one of the areas the Triumph V8 could have been improved.

[TedTaylor]

Why not change just one head and have a 24 valve engine?  :X

Ted

[AlanChatterton]

Thinks, Ted really does need to change his forum name to "Mad Uncle Ted"...............!  ;D ;D ;D

[TedTaylor]

AlanChatterton wrote:

Thinks, Ted really does need to change his forum name to "Mad Uncle Ted"...............!  ;D ;D ;D

Lets have a vote on it - all those in favour say 'AYE'

[AlanChatterton]

aye!

[Pom Down Under]

Nay - lateral thnkers should back you up.

At times I think the whole world is mad, except for me! But even I act strange at times!!?     :B

[Pom Down Under]

Hmmmm?     :-/

[Richard B]

1379 wrote:

Nay - lateral thnkers should back you up

http://www.saabisti.fi/miscellanea/saab-v8-engine-the-complete-story/

Quote:

SAAB Turbo 16 valve cylinder heads were then fitted on top. This is where the team had a real revelation, made possible by the construction of the SAAB cylinder heads. If you pointed the heads the same way, so that timing gears were on the same side, it meant that one head would be positioned correctly but on the other side the exhaust ducts would face inward and the intake ducts outward. This, obviously, would not do. Instead of manufacturing a custom head, which could have made the production costs unsustainable, there turned out to be a simple solution. On the problem head intake ducts were converted to exhaust ducts and vice versa .

Now thats lateral thinking :P

[Pom Down Under]

Yah, dis is goot.      ;)

[GT6 M]

regarding V8,s to me, with the vast majority of them, some serious forward thinking is lost

EG the Stag V8, who in their reet mind would design a cyl head that cant be used on both banks.
would have made sourcing parts alott easier

there are a few modern V8s that use same head for left / reet banks, and also saves on costs to.
says the design cheif of one well know firm

M