Newbie engine rebuild... Spitty overheated

[Dan Miller]

Good morning forum!  I hope you are all well!

as Spring is here, I have started running out of excuses NOT to start working on Spitty.

so some people on here with know me from last club...   last summer my Spitfire 1500 overheated on a drive back from Belfast...  a nasty knocking noise and drop in power meant I had done something nasty...   (had over heating problems since I bought her 12 months previous)

anyhoo...  I never had a classic before and never done engine work in my life, so a new journey for me (I am in IT, so bit of a culture shock).  the guys on the club talked me through getting the head gasket done and that went great, good compression on all cylinders post HG.  however, knocking still there...   so the guys persuaded me to do the bottom end (minus the pistons due to my experience).

so got her stripped down, engine out (bought a ton of tool, including a crane - I am a tools-fetish).  got eh crank out, found a shredded big end bearing..  (I have photos should anyone want to see them).

got the crank reground, bought a ton of new bits including a SS end plate, new bearings, the works...  but it has all sat in the garage including an engine in pieces, since last October...  

so here I am now, 6 months later, no idea what all the bits are, I have lots of tubes of stuff that I bought on advice from the guys but can not remember what they are all for...    (sealant for core plugs, some sort of lubricant for engine bits?  )

just wondering if anyone has any Classic 101 advice for getting back into this!  I know it will take me a good amount of time to do the bottom end build, and I am relatively patient...  but I am very nervous...  but determined to DIY it!  

any chance that I have wrecked the block by leaving it without core-plugs or a sump on over winter?  i.e. corrosion?  it was covered in oil, and the crank came back greased from the engineers, so hoping I am ok..  but identifying all the bits and lotions/potions is what really worries me...

think total Newbie...    :-)

[piman]

Hello Dan,

take it step by step and be methodical. A workshop manual is essential if you don't have one.

Potential pit falls are assembling the bearing caps either on the wrong journal or turned through 180 degrees either (There is a tell tale dark mark on the cap's mating surface where the cut away for the locating tap on the shell sits which makes it easy to see the correct way round) of which will likely result in an engine that doesn't turn freely. If you have replaced the bearing caps where they came from then that is less likely.

Make sure every thing is spotlessly clean on reassembly and use plenty of engine oil on all moving surfaces.

Alec

[DougBGT6]

Hi Dan, we met again! Our old Uncle will be along soon!   ;D

I found rebuilding the bottom end disappointingly quick, hours rather than days. Still I didn't take the core plugs out. As I recall you hosed out the waterways and the consensus was don't use sealant on the new plugs. I'd start with those, you don't want to be swinging a hammer near your shiny new bearings and the block will be a little lighter to push around.

When do you start?

[JohnD]

Dan,
Well done for taking this on!  I promise you that hearing that first engine YOU have rebuilt start up and run is second only to hearing your new child cry!   As Alec says read it up, do it methodically, and take your time.

The Haynes manual has the advantage of being based (as all Haynes's are) on an actual strip down and rebuild, with pics, when the Official manual deals with it piecemeal, and assumes some knowledge.

You might like to read a 'tutorial' on rebuilding Spitfire engines, over on the Totally Triumph Net , in the US.  Written by a Brit, it emphasises perfomance but I think you would find it of interest and value.  It's on the now archived TTN message board, and I'll have to be at home to find the URL - I'm taking a moment from work right now!

John

[Dan Miller]

thanks guys for the positive re-enforcement  :-)


Hi Doug!!  I could start today, but have to get the ex'wife's car MOT'ed so prob not get a chance, but the coming weekends I think have to be viable...  I think I will lay out every new part I have bought on the garage floor, and then just work out what goes where, study the manual (it was great for the strip down)  and go for it

that URL from the other website would be very handy though.  I will do as much reading up on it before I start as possible....  the strip down I found very difficult but mostly from fear, and the odd seized nut...    when I stripped her down, I used a lot of zip-lock bags and labels, I am hoping they were as good as I remember

for the end-caps, I did not replace...  however, I do remember that one side of the end cap was more squared off than the other, and I made note of which way that was supposed to face, so hopefully I was not imagining it LOL

very excited about getting her back on the road...  she is SORN off at the moment...

[JensH]

Take pictures and post them here, I am sure you will find your way out. Its not difficult.

[JohnD]

Here's that "Tutorial" I mentioned:
http://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/engine_building.shtml

JOhn

[Dan Miller]

nice one, thanks JohnD!

[Sheepy]

As jens said, take pictures and post them up here, we will help you get through it.

Another good idea is to buy a workshop manual, that will help you see what your doing.  :)

[Dan Miller]

it begins finally...  these are all the bits  :-)

[Dan Miller]

now, first question and observations

1. I have no idea how I got the core plug out that its half way behind the water pump, without taking the pump off!  anyway, had to take it off to get the new one in...

means u need a new water-pump gasket now though as my et is bottom end doh!!

2. the missing core plug...   I have a distinct memory have removing a large core plug (or what I thought was a core plug) from the back of the engine.



I definitely remember pulling one out of here or am I going nuts?


now, I also need to start identifying stuff...  in one of the photos in the last post, there is a white paper backed bag... it has 4 bolts in it, and I have 4 more bolts the same outside the bag.  these were in the box I got from Canley last year so not sure if I bought them or if I threw them in there for some reason!!  anyone recognise them?  they look "used"

as for Graphogen... is the only place I need it, between the bearing and the crank?  is that it?

fun times ahead!!

[DougBGT6]

Dan, Hi! Are you saying you haven't got the big core plug? You got a set, it must be there!

Can you is look through your Emails and see what Canley sent you and do some correlation?

That bag of gaskets looks like it might have a water pump gasket. If not you need a new one or, make one.

[Dan Miller]

Hi Doug!  

it is deffo not there  :-(  maybe got a set with one missing  :-(  it is bigger than all the rest...  no sure why there is even a core plug there as there is only a small opening in the middle, it is solid block behind it apart from a tiny hole..  wondering if I took something out that I should not have...  

rimmers has a blow up o the wrong end LOL

[Dan Miller]

here...  found this photo from the old thread...  it is the shiny one on the bottom left...  I wonder should I have taken this one out at all

[oscarthedog]

Hi there,
I have recently rebuilt the engine in my mk3 (including all core plugs) the one you are describing is a cover over the rear camshaft bearing. it will have to be replaced as it prevents oils getting out of the back of the engine and possibly contaminating the clutch. If you have bought a core plug set usually that particular plug is not normally included. you would need to buy it from either Rimmer brothrs or james paddock. it is a stock item
Good luck

[Dan Miller]

ahhh  that makes sense thank you.,...  I live and learn!

this is what I bought last year:
PART NUMBER      DESCRIPTION                                                             RETAIL QUANTITY  
E40L                   GASKET SET - ENGINE B/END 4CYLINDER L/CRANK       £13.70        1  
ECPS8                 CORE PLUG SET - 4 CYLINDER (BUCKET TYPE)              Â£7.70          1  
WL208                SPRING WASHER - 5/16                                               £0.20          7  
UKC2598             CON ROD BOLT                                                           £3.60          8  
201344A             ENGINE BACK PLATE - SPITFIRE HERALD ALLOY            Â£45.40         1  
HU809                SETSCREW - 5/16" X 1 1/8" UNF                                  Â£0.35           6  
WL209 SPRING    WASHER - 3/8                                                            Â£0.20           6  
HN2008              STEEL NUT - 5/16                                                        Â£0.20          6  


having trouble finding the part on the rimmers diagrams  :-(

[DougBGT6]

Dan,

I think the water pump gasket may be that brown one, with three holes, in you bag of gaskets.

Doug

[Dan Miller]

Hi Doug,

I have a feeling that is the one between the water pump and the housing...  where I need the one between the housing and the block

you know what though, I bet I have one some where as I would have bought a gasket set when I did the head, and I think I left the housing on the head when I took it off...  can not be sure, but I seem to remember I did...  memory is shot!!!

otherwise, I will just get one  :-)  

I just need to find that cam seal thingie as I can not find it on any of the sites!  I will have to email them

[DougBGT6]

Had a look, Canleys do this:

148353 CORE PLUG - 2" (BUCKET TYPE) REAR OF CAM  

Is that it? 2" doesn't look big enough?

[Dan Miller]

that might be it...  2inch does sound big...  I have emailed them anyway so should get a reply monday

[DougBGT6]

Oh! I thought it was too small! ;D But looking again it might be right.

TVs dreary tonight, I'm watching something Italian with subtitles.  ??)  Might see what's on the Iplayer.

[Dan Miller]

get Netflix...  Â£5.99 a month with so much to watch...  need unlimited internet though

[Pete Lewis]

No   get out in the garage and fire up that boiler with twin carbs fitted ,  thats got to be original !!!     Much more fun  Ha  


thats the right part for the rear cam core plug.
just tap  in till its raised edge is  flush.

when you get to refit the bearings you must make sure the bearing caps are  on the right rods and crank case, always use pleant of engine oil on all the moving parts , never wrench up a bearing cap , always light tighten and rotate , if things start to lock
stop and look, you wont be the first to fit caps back to front and this will swage /briuse the shell ends and lock the crank.

unless you have a new camshaft and followers try to refit them from where they came from ...if thats known now .

if stuck for a gasket you can ..use a joint free sealer...think you have some ,  or use some thin card and tap around the periphery of its housing with a small ball pein hammer to cut the contour out,  to make nice round bolt holes use a ball bearing or something like a old push rod,  place over the hole and tap, its easy to become addicted to making these .

pete

[Sheepy]

peterhlewis wrote:

its easy to become addicted to making these .
pete

haha, your not wrong there pete! I used to love making gaskets that way!

I bet most mechanics these days would look at you funny if you said make me a gasket! The old ways are the best!

[Dan Miller]

Pete!!!!  feel like send you a hug!!!

That boiler is my own design, K&N's too!!!  watch that baby heat!!!  :-)  might try and fit the SS exhaust to it  :-)

as you can see from the garage, I have bits everywhere!!!    so really trying to get a handle on the nuts and bolts as I think I bought new ones for the shells, and new ones for the gear box housing, and new ones for the end plates (as there was a right mix of them when I stripped her down)

as for the cam-shaft, I have not actually done anything with the cam, it is still in place, and I have not gone near the head this time, so the followers are all still in situ  :-)  

I have ordered the new core plug (canley also confirmed it was the 2-inch jobber).  also ordered a magnetic sump plug to try and catch any shreds of bearing that might have got into the oil ways, so hopefully it will help...

fun times ahead!!  was reading Haynes manual last night, very nervous about putting the crank in, but going for it hopefully this weekend  :-)

there does appear to be a little surface degradation on the end of the crank, so not sure if I should polish it or something...  that's what i get for not oiling it when it came back from the engineers!