daytime running lamp

[Thomas4]

Hi has anybody got a good solution for daytime running lamps (like LEDs in parking light or something), as they become obrigatoral in Switzerland by 2014?
Thanks
Thomas

[Howard]

Thomas

I fitted Ring day time running lights purchased from Halfords in the UK to my TR7. They came as a complete kit with the automatic on relay and wiring but I cheated and wired them into the side light circuit.

[mikeyb]

can you not just run around with dipped headlamps on?

[Howard]

Another photo

[Thomas4]

Hi Howard
thanks. The new law here is that the lamps have to be at least 0.6 m apart and over 0.25 m from the ground, guess you did that so.

Hi Mike
I have read that you could drive with dipped and even dimmed dipped headlights, but I have also read that the lights have to go on automatically, not sure. In the case of the Triumph TR7 (and Porsche 928 which is one of my other cars) I would really hate that for aesthetic reasons though, and also the drag is much higher of course.

Has somebody found a solution to modify the parking lights with LEDs? Maybe somebody from a Country where daytime running lamps are also obrigatoral?

Regards
Thomas

[Howard]

Hi Thomas

I fitted the lights as I clock up plenty of miles on the continent and got fed up with driving with my headlights up all the time. I don't think that the side lights (parking lights to our US members) could be converted to provide a bright enough light to meet the requirements for running lights.

However the lights I fitted could be installed further back under the bumper so that they are not easily visible or you could blend them into the slots in the black plastic trim that runs across the car just above the bumper.

Cheers

Howard (From Doha, Qatar)

[Beans]

1958 wrote:

...as they become obrigatoral in Switzerland by 2014? ...

Didn't know the Swiss were so short minded.
These daytime running lights are an accident waiting to happen,
as the rear lights don't work when they are (automatically) switched on.

Over here a fair few new cars are already equipped with these from the factory.
But on dark and rainy days they are completely invisible from behind,
as the drivers forget that the rear lights are not working.

Already had a few narrow escapes with such cars in the dusk.
Not that I bother too much about this, as I usually win in this contest with my daily driver  :X
But in in my opinion these lights are very unsafe ...

[Andy Flexney]

Good point Bean, I did not realise that only the front lights worked. Silly idea.

But what is the idea of daylight driving lights anyway, blind drivers are also blind during the day so how will having lights turned on them help?

There must be blind drivers otherwise why do we have speaking petrol pumps  

:)

[Toledo Man]

There's an article on the subject in Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lights

It was introduced in the Scandinavian countries where there's not much daylight in winter and some idiots in Brussels have now made it compulsory across the rest of the EU. I can understand it in the Scandinavian countries but the benefits of DRLs are much less in places such as Spain, Italy or Greece where there is more daylight even in the winter. Getting back to the original topic, having done a bit of searching, it will be compulsory in Switzerland from 1st January 2014 to have dipped headlights switched on at all times or DRLs if they're fitted. You don't have to have them retrofitted but I can see where you're coming from with the TR7 (less drag and less power consumption). A much cheaper option would be to replace the sidelight bulbs with LED bulbs (I want to do this with my Dolomite) but I don't know if this would be acceptable in Switzerland.

Going slightly off topic, I am amazed at how many drivers use their lights inappropriately. In bright sunshine drivers have their headlight blazing but at night there's drivers with just sidelights on and I've even see drivers with NO headlights on at all! My partner's son-in-law who is ex-Army has his headlights on all the time. Apparently, somebody in the army was involved in an accident and the other driver claimed they didn't see them so from that point, all army vehicles have to have their headlights on at all times so they can be seen.

[junkuser]

May be the camouflage on army vehicles works too well.

[Chriss]

I have an '83 Saab 900 Turbo.  It has permanently wired DRLs.

The front sidelights have 5w and 21w filaments and the rear lights just have 5w filaments. Brake lights are separate and 21w .  When the ignition is on and the light switch is off the 21w fronts and 5w rears are powered, when the light switch is on either side or headlight positions the 5w front and the 5w rears are powered.

I find this a good system and would want it on all my cars.  I don't know why Saab stopped it later as my '88 and '93 900s don't have it.

Otherwise on my TR7 I have a system of auxiliary headlights with 4 Hella FF75 driving lights fitted on top of the bumper but below the headlights.  I don't have a photo, but Beans may be able to oblige?  I use these as hot standbys in case the headlights don't work (I hate pop ups), extra power to augment the headlights, or instead of the headlights on motorways to reduce drag and noise.  I don't know if these would be legal as DRLs in Switzerland, but I also use them in bad daylight conditions in the UK.

[Chriss]

Sorry I forgot I has a suitable sized picture that shows the Hella FF75s

[Beans]

Chriss wrote:

Sorry I forgot I has a suitable sized picture  ...

I see you found my Silverstone pictures from a fw years ago  ;)

Here's a frontal picture, taken by GTRoger at the Nürburgring in 2005 ...

[Sorry, album link no longer available]

[Thomas4]

thanks for the replies.

The easiest will be just to use some LED lamp kit and put the lamps where the fog lights are supposed to be, and to use all the wiring and relays which come with the kit, that will be easy to install and also to remove again.
In principle I would prefer to fit LED lamps in the sockets of the parking lamp which would be dimmed if the parking lights are on, but this might not be legal because there will be no visible certificate, and the wiring is not so easy, what makes it even more complicated - this will apply in the case of the TR7 - there must be 4 cm distance between the LEDs and the direction indicator, otherwise the LEDs have to go out while the direction indicators are lit. On the other hand the MOT will probably not require anything because you can always drive around with dimmed headlights, so I am not in a hurry to do anything right now anyway, some better idea might come along.

[Chriss]

I am not sure a better idea will come along    :)  That is the simplest way to get DRL's, although they would not be automatic with the ignition and the headlights, but it is what I would do if I did not have my set up.

[Chriss]

beans wrote:

I see you found my Silverstone pictures from a fw years ago  ;)

Here's a frontal picture, taken by GTRoger at the Nürburgring in 2005 ...

Thanks Theo, It is too good to have been taken by me   ;)

You don't look too happy at the Nurbergring  ?

Merry Christmas to you   :)

[Howard]

Chriss wrote:

I am not sure a better idea will come along    :)  That is the simplest way to get DRL's, although they would not be automatic with the ignition and the headlights, but it is what I would do if I did not have my set up.

The Halfords / Ring setup on my 7 came with the wiring loom & electronics to set them up as automatic with the ignition and headlights. Also like you my driving lights are connected to the full beam setting on the headlights which makes it much easier to flash some one without waiting for the headlights to come up.

Happy Xmas to everyone

Howard

[Beans]

Chriss wrote:

... You don't look too happy at the Nurbergring ...

Lack of sleep I presume  :X

[Thomas4]

test of some daytime running lamp kits by TCS (Touring Club Switzerland)

http://www.tcs.ch/de/assets/testberichte/tagfahrlicht/testresultate-nachruest-tagfahrlichter.pdf

will probably buy one of these at some point, just have to figure out which ones are the least obtrusive / can be hidden easily

[Howard]

Thomas

On the 10CR we regularly drive through Switzerland, so does this new law also apply to foreign cars?

Cheers

Howard

PS Any chance of a translation of the PDF?

[Thomas4]

OK, here it is in French :-)

http://www.tcs.ch/fr/assets/tous-les-tests/feux-de-jour/resultats-du-test-feux-diurnes-aftermarket.pdf

otherwise try https://translate.google.ch/?hl=de&tab=wT#de/en/


Howard, I guess everybody will have to obey that law, the fine will be 40 Swiss Francs if you don't.

[Howard]

Merci je comprend assez.

I suspect that there will be a few more CT members with the same requirement before the next 10CR if they want to avoid a fine :)

Howard

[thescrapman]

Howard wrote:

Merci je comprend assez.

I suspect that there will be a few more CT members with the same requirement before the next 10CR if they want to avoid a fine :)

Howard

With a bit of luck we will miss Switzerland and their very expensive tolls.

The DRLs might be the last straw.

[Thomas4]

the complete definition of 'daylight running lamps' is here:
www.tcs.ch/de/assets/verkehrssicherheit/via-sicura/tagfahrlichter.pdf
(again in German, please don't ask for a translation ...)

> side lamps are not acceptable running lights
if by 'side lamps' you mean the standard parking lights, then they are not acceptable (not bright enough, must be 400 - 1200 Cd; no 'E RL' marking on lamp glass).

But I repeat, you are obeying the Swiss law if you drive with (dipped) headlights on ... but especially in a car with  pop-up headlight to me that seems very out of place (aesthetically, more drag and - true of course also for standard headlights - uses about 200 W / + 0.2 litres of petrol per hour).

[Sheepy]

I can see why they are doing this, but we see more ans more new cars fitted with these, and older ones retrofitted, and yes you can see them easier,
I actually find it more annoying, and distracting as they are so bright and intense,  if angled wrong they blind you! it's the same with the new led headlights, they are too bright!