junkuser Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Would it be possible to make something like a Gunson Colortune with a sensor that converted colour to a signal that could be displayed/recorded as numbers or, some-such, so that the the mixture could be checked on over a variety of throttle openings and engine loadings for a passenger to make notes from, whilst taking the car on a test drive?Maybe another approach would be to run fibre optics from the Colortune to a display in the cab for a passenger to make notes from under the various conditions.Don't know how long a Gunson would stand up to this sort of treatment though.Just seems such an item would be helpful sorting needles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotoflex Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 OH THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.Or if it made sounds of changing pitch. Squinting at the Colortune thing when I use it makes me wish I had eyes on stalks like a snail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It sort of exists, but as an O2 sensor and gauge. Sensor fitted in the exhaust, but can be fitted to a section of manifold so it responds to just one carb. Guess you could run a pair easily enough.Not as cheap as a colour tune though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cammmy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 ^But much more accurate. Could always have more than one bung and move sensor around as required when tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshire_spam Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Buy a kit?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-AEM-WIDEBAND-AIR-FUEL-RATIO-GAUGE-CONTROLLER-O2-SENSOR-KIT-30-4100-/111270330797 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I splashed out on an Innovate Lambda wideband meter.http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.phpAnyone else using one?I can't get the software to work.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 JohnD wrote:I splashed out on an Innovate Lambda wideband meter.http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.phpAnyone else using one?I can't get the software to work.JohnI have the Innovate kit and hope to fit it to the Stag (as part of the EFI project) in the next 2 weeks - I'll let you know about the software! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 I was thinking of a diagnostic tool that could easily be moved from engine to engine/cylinder to cylinder.Exhaust gas analysers would be close, but more difficult to set-up and only analyse the mixed combustion products after some time delay due to the volume of the exhaust system.Flame colour is instantaneous so just asked if some remote reading facility was possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBE Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I do a lot of mapping work, sadly innovate are not held in high regard in the industry .. many people say you're better off with something like an an AEM or TechEdge. I've never had issues with either of those wideband units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Wideband O2 sensors do exactly the job mentioned with car greater accuracy than a Colourtune. I'm pretty sure there are warnings in the original Colourtune instructions about only using them on unloaded engines at or close to idle speed.I have Innovate LC1 systems on both my cars, permanently wired to the MS ECUs. No problems with them and they've always agreed well with the external sensors when on the rolling road.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 What do you use to for a read out, Nick?I've plugged mine into the laptop, got the screen full of dials, but nothing happens.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Nick, it is appreciated that the Colortune instructions say to use it in the way you describe but all they are is a window and a spark gap, so I figure that a similar unit using a transparent material which would stand the pressures and rate of temperature change would be possible.As manufactures err on the side of caution, it may be that the Gunson would stand up to more than they state so I would not mind starting with the one I have (and don't use) if a suitable sensor was a possibility.Can't imagine offering to help someone sort their carburetors and then having to fit a boss in their exhaust for a sensor, or two in the manifold to enable the monitoring of each of two carburetors.Not what I had in mind.Just thought I'd ask as I appreciate there are much brighter persons than I in this World and such a thing may already exist.Mal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Mal,I don't think the Colourtune would necessarily do anything "unsafe" (ie pop the glass out), but I think you might melt the electrode pretty swiftly, possibly causing some pinking/pre-ignition along the way.I also think that the colour change only gives a crude indication of mixture variation between very rich, rich and ok and I'm doubtful that you'd collect any meaningful data.I take your point about not wanting to drill the exhaust and fit a bung etc - but people do use the wideband just fitted into the tail pipe - see attached pic. Googling wideband sensor in tailpipe produces a number of variations. My own RR man has just such a device as backup for when his £5K analyser machine is messing about.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 John,For mixture reading and logging I access mine via the MS software (Tuner studio & Megalogviewer), but there is also the software that comes bundled with the Innovate stuff, which is called "Logworks" IIRC. I've not used that as I can collect more data via the ECU logging facility. There's also something called LM programmer which is I think is used to configure the Innovate controller.It sounds as though the computer is not talking to the controller. This may well be because you've not got the end-plug in the serial connection or got it in the wrong one. The instructions are clear as (thick) mud and I've had trouble figuring it out every time I've had to configure the controller.For a permanent display you need what is in effect a 0 - 5v voltmeter connected to the analogue output. These are available in many forms but the "proper" AFR displays like the ones from Innovate themselves all seem unreasonably expensive.CheersNick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks, Nick.back to intensive study!JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkuser Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thank you for posting that picture Nick.This is the type of device I referred to as an exhaust gas analiser. Probably incorrect terminology.Mal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Possibly incorrect but semantics really. The (now maybe old school?) analysers used to draw a sample of exhaust gas up a tube for measurement in a machine a few feet away. They could and can measure various different gases and compounds.The thing in the picture is simply a portable housing for the wideband O2 sensor. The wideband sensor measures the oxygen content (only) of the exhaust gas flow on the spot using some form of electrochemical witchcraft. It does less than a full blown analyser but it's a damn useful tuning tool and < £ 150.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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