Electronic Ignition

[garyf]

I'm thinking of upgrading my new Classic to electronic ignition, I had one of the types that fit inside the Distributor on my Vitesse and had no problems over a 7 year period.

It was purchased via the TSSC Club shop and was an Aldon/Pertronix type system I think.

I've heard a few story's of failure of these units on the TR-Register Site?

I've seen also that the best place to buy them is via Retrorockets in the States, so I've e-mailed them for prices in Pounds including delivery/etc

I also may get a new Flamethrower Coil and leads too.

Anyone had any bad experiences with this kit?

[glang]

Ive got one of those cheapy systems off ebay on my vitesse and its been fine although I havent done that many miles with it and I do keep the points in the boot just in case. If I wanted to splash more cash Id go for the lumenition set up from James Paddock as I like the large diameter of its magnetic triggers as it should mean improved spark timing accuracy....

[Velocita Rosso]

H and H Ignition Solutions ask for Lee

[Russell]

I've got Petronix modules on 4 of my cars. 2 of them (the TR6 and 2000) have done 20-30000 miles each with them in.

One thing I've always done is make sure there's no ballast resistor anywhere in the circuit and change to a non-ballast coil, usually a Lucas DLB105.
That way you ensure everything is getting 12V all the time.

So far, no issues in 10 years (is that now the kiss of death?). Some came from Retrorockets, others from UK suppliers, it depended on the exchange rate advantage at the time.

Russell.

[yorkshire_spam]

Powerspark points replacement fitted to my 1500 Spitfire has done the rbrr and 10cr without any problems,  still got a set of points in the boot "just in case" though.

[Roger Keys]

Recently fitted a pertronix to a 2500S. It doesn't get any easier. Had one on my dodge charger for a few years too. No complaints at all.

[Dogsbody47uk]

I've been using Magnetronic on my 13/60 for over 2 years. No problems so far!

[garyf]

Had a few E-Mailed Quotes back and Lee at H&H seems the best on price?

Anybody else got one of the H&H systems fitted, they seem to be very popular with the Classic Ford Escort Owners?

[timireson]

I have it fitted, but car still in resto and hence only idles now and then. No issues with it though, and the resto job they did on the dizzy was brill. Looked like new when it came back.
T.

[GT6 M]

Ohhh, yer modding a 5,s ign, what will the TR lot think,(think)(whistle)

give some thowt to a  1 2 3  ign unit,  as it can be programed with diff curves.

there also a programapable  thingy that works of a lap top to fit any curve ye want, bit like the Megawotsit for adjusting.
but still on a dizzy
and I forget whats its called noo, after fitting one a yer or so ago to a Marras car,

this is some thing similar
http://www.aldonamethyst.co.uk/

https://www.google.co.uk/searc.....FcABVpbdJsq7aaDvk7gD

M

M

[thescrapman]

Quoted from Spitfire6

Is the lumenition no longer Optically triggered? Back in the 80's when I had one fitted, it was optical, as fitted to the Scorpion Tank. That sold it for me.

.

There is a magnetically triggered Luminiion now-a-days, Magnetronic??

I used a Pertronix for yeas with issues, then a duff coil fitted to prove another iffy coil set fire to it....

Then fitted a cheapy Simon BBC one (I set fire to it the day before the RBRR)

I have Piranhas on 2 other cars (it is usually the main transistor that fails if you have a duffer)

Lots of the TR boys are swearing by the "Stealth" systems at the moment. I have helped a mate set one up with basic settings.

Seemed OK. The rolling road he went to shortly after hated it and took it out and refitted points..

[Toledo Man]

I use the Britpart kit in a Sprint dizzy on my 1850. It is a straight swap for the points and condenser. I didn't even need to change the coil and it is still going strong to this day. It is one of the best things I've done to this car. Like Sam, I had a set of points and condenser in the glovebox "just in case" but they ended up going in a Dolomite 1300 whose electronic ignition expired.. I got mine from this website:
http://www.mm-4x4.com/britpart-electronic-conversion-kit-2721-p.asp
It will fit the Lucas 45D4 dizzy but the Lucas 44D4 that's fitted on the Sprint uses the same points and condenser so it will fit. I used a 45D4 rotor arm and cap with the normal 1850 HT leads and it works a treat. My setup would work on a TR7 I'm not sure how this would work on a Sprint engine because it would foul the normal Sprint cap and rotor arm.

[glang]

Yeh the optical system is still available but way outside my budget..........

Quoted from Spitfire6

Is the lumenition no longer Optically triggered? Back in the 80's when I had one fitted, it was optical, as fitted to the Scorpion Tank. That sold it for me.



I had a piranha one years ago for about ten years and it just died. Points in back of car got me home.
Anything is better than points though. Getting rid of the points condenser is another plus. Try and get an ignition module that is made for the 12V coil that you use.

Cheers,
Iain.

[garyf]

Just ordered one of the H&H Ignition Eazi-fit Electronic Ignition kits together with a new Coil, HT Leads and a better Quality Rotor Arm, guess what I'll be up to at the weekend

Hopefully better starting and smoother running.

I enquired about one of the Red Rotor Arms with Lee but was told these are now made in China?!

I didn't realize this, anyone know any different?

[piman]

Hello Iain,

it's not just about voltage.  You might be surprised to know that the initial phase of the plug firing has 200 amps or so flowing for a very tiny fraction of a second (billionths).

My source for this information is by a very highly respected engineer (Roger Bywater of AJ6 Engineering)

Further more he states:-

"What may surprise many people is that for most engines a wide spark gap, high voltage, low resistance coil and powerful electronic module, are not actually required for good reliable ignition"

Alec

[piman]

Hello Ian,

"Today, anything that replaces the points and condenser is good."

Good in what way, I like old cars and like them the way they were made originally?  

You mention energy and even the old fashioned system originally fitted has several times the necessary energy to ignite an even less than desirable fuel\air mixture. Remember it's not how much voltage you potentially (sorry) have, the voltage level that is used is what the plug demands,

Alec

[Velocita Rosso]

[quote=garyf]Just ordered one of the H&H Ignition Eazi-fit Electronic Ignition kits together with a new Coil, HT Leads and a better Quality Rotor Arm, guess what I'll be up to at the weekend

Hopefully better starting and smoother running.

/quote]

You will not regret it,had mine on for a few yearsnow,....recon dizzy,new coil/rotor/cap and coil
...half an hour

[bxbodger]

I fitted one of those cheapo Britpart systems to my Metro, simply to make maintenance a bit easier (either the rad or the dizzie have to come out for checking/cleaning/adjustment)...what a useless piece of jink it turned out to be, the car developed a worsening random misfire and stalling, traced to the britpart unit. I took the thing apart, it was clearly made for pennies with very poor soldering and an expected fail rate. The points went back in and have been utterly reliable.

Quoted Text

The distributor is also a relic. Maybe look at something that's crank triggered an doesn't require ye old dizzy? Wasted spark works and you can save money by only using cheap plugs as wasted spark is a waste of money with expensive plugs. Maybe a next step?

...of course it's a relic, with mechanical advance weights and springs whatnot- it's all part of the fun of an old car. Do away with it and then maybe do away with carbs too, and what are you left with? basically a dull modern car.

[GT6 M]

At the time there were not many cars that did not have points and only the lumination system was non points triggered if you could afford it.

Errr no quite reet Sir Ian, there was the Mobelec magnum, point free.

And the SX100 an 1500 were capacitor,
but the SX2000 was both, called  reactive.
capacitor for initial, and the other bit after wards,
{ other bit, forgot its name }

then there was the Lucas  Opus,seems to recall the local BL agent had a set up for it to show it working

Colins got it, it was the Stealth programable ign..

If I were you Gary, I be going for a programable one.
t,pot wid  its not factory, if factory were still aboot, they would no be on points.!!

some thing to loook at
https://uk.storeslider.com/mobelec-magnum-electronic-ignition-kit-251892639373e.html

M

[Toledo Man]

The points on the original Delco dizzy on my 1850 are an absolute pain to adjust. That's why I've fitted a Sprint dizzy. It makes life so much easier even if I stuck with points. It also gave me more options for electronic ignition.

[piman]

Hello Iain,

setting points is only one of the many maintenance jobs, not a hardship, neither is setting valve clearances for that matter unless it's something with shim adjustment. Don't forget your electronic assisted distributor still needs some periodic lubrication?

Toledo Man, I agree, my son had a TR7 and that Delco distributor was a real pain, like you I fitted a Lucas distributor in it's place.

Alec

[Tony68]

I have a dual system. Optically triggered Lumenition to stop the advance altering when the CB (or the plastic heel!) wear,  and a Sparkright capacitor-discharge system to give more spark energy. Lately it has been playing up, though, so I've switched it out.

I believe in getting a really *big* spark - have done ever since I built a CD unit myself back in the 1970s and fitted it to a Hillman Minx 1725. Opened up the plug gaps from 25 thou to 50, and the difference was amazing! From a top speed of 70mph max, to somewhere around 85mph (all indicated). Clearly, the Rootes head needed a big spark to fir the mixture reliably. BTW I never believed all the c**p about needing a long spark - if the mixture hasn't fired within a fraction of a milli-second of the initial spark, it's too late.

[Tony68]

Quoted from piman

"What may surprise many people is that for most engines a wide spark gap, high voltage, low resistance coil and powerful electronic module, are not actually required for good reliable ignition"

Alec

That may be true for many cars, especially modern ones with fuel injection and good gas dynamics, but many old cars definitely improved with more spark energy, like the Hillman in my other post. Remember that the voltage needed may vary with cylinder conditions, and it's the voltage that forms the spark, but the current that provides the energy.  The CD system supplies more energy because it uses the coil only as a transformer (though an uprated coil and ignition amplifier can help too).

A criticism at the time was that the CD pulse was very short, and that a fireable mixture might not happen to be anywhere near the plug when it fired.
My response was always that if you couldn't fire the mixture properly at the right time, the fuel in the cylinder was basically wasted anyway (because the late spark means less cylinder pressure and thermal efficiency drops like a stone), that a big quick spark is more likely to fire a mixture than a long thin one, and that if it doesn't, the mixture is too weak for decent power anyway!

There's also the point that the original inductive coil ignition had a delay (due to the slow voltage rise) which was constant in time but increased in degrees at high rpm and reduced the ignition advance significantly. It's arguable how good or bad that was, but the bottom line was I *almost* always got better performance with CD ignition provided I could tweak the ignition timing and (if necessary) mixture too.

[piman]

Hello Tony,

a wider gap causes spark wander and wears out your plugs quicker, it's really not necessary.

Alec

[Tim Bancroft]

BTW Gary, what have you bought to replace the Vitesse.