draining very old oil from car

[bond68]

I have a spitfire that has stood for 15 years and naturally I wish to drain and change the oil without starting it up
Any ideas on procedure?

                                       Ray

[Hogie]

Hi Ray,
               after this time nearly call the oil will be in the sump.  To thin the oil slightly you could play a heat gun on the bottom of the sump for a few minutes that should make it flow out better.

Roger

[thescrapman]

and leave it draining for a long time.

if you can angle the engine slightly to make the drain plug as low as possible.

And there will be a thick layer of sludge in there, so once drained, drop the sump off for a good clean out.

Cheers

Colin

[nicmk1est]

your best bet is to remove the sump and clean that way,,,seeing as its been stood for 15years! but thats my opinion,,,,but that means nothing on here

[GT6 M]

As bove, But be prepared to change the oil filter after about 2-4 hours running,
cos the olde oil in the engine will have turned to a crud,
will only get taken oot, when oil is hot,an gets to work.

all this crud then goes into the sump, and also gets sucked up thru oil pump, into filter.
and it soon gets clogged quite fast.

So a filter chnge soon after running, and maybe another a few weeks later.
My self I run a flushing oil thru, or a  Deisel oil first, as they got moer detergents in em.

Be also wary that the wee holes int rockers are no clogged up,
maybe a shaft strip doon, its no that complicated.

IF, ye had a pressure gauge, then the blocked filters would show up, but with oot,
then ye would never no. some times the oil light comes on at idle, but mostly they dont.
this is frae experiance with olde long stood engines.

M

[partsaver]

Remove the sump and the oil pump to clean it out properly, and buy a cheap oil filter and cheap oil to give it a flush out run up. I normally run engines for about 30 minutes to flush them.

[bond68]

Thanks Guys...a lot to do but sump off and clean oil pump a must I think

                                              Ray :-/

[JohnD]

I've repleuid "in another place", but in essence and to avoid removing sump in situ, drain as much as possible.  REfill with cheapest "new" oil (It'll be recycled, but who cares?) you can find, with a new filter.  Run for 100 miles or so, drian when hot and fita secod filter and refil with the lubricant of your choice (and pocket).
Basicly using the cheapo oil as flushing oil, without the risk of loosening all the plated on residues of years, that normally will do no harm.
Joh.

[TedTaylor]

I do the oil/filter change after a period of ticking over (about half an hour) then an oil/filter change, and another after a couple of weeks. However I always use a good quality engine oil (Marcus' diesel oil is a good one) because if it has not been run for a while the bearings could use al the help they can get.  It is not like running in a new engine when a lower quality oil can help the surfaces to bed in.

[JohnD]

I don't want a fight, Ted!  But oil is oil!
   As long as it has the right viscosity, it will do its job.   Expensive oils are so because they have additives (and an advertising budget to fund) that allow them to remain in that viscosity range, keep wear particles, soot and water in suspension for much longer, so that oil changes in the 50K range are now (supposed to be) possible.   But if you are going to change your oil anyway after such a short period, then that extra cost is wasted.
Yes, a new engine has to bed-in as an old one won't, so there will be a large burden of wear particles at that time.   In this situation, the burden will be residual Black Gunge.    It's a judgement if a cheap oil will do that for two weeks/100 odd miles any worse than an expensive one.   I chose to throw away a cheap oil, and THEN fill up with a longer lasting one.
John

[Hogie]

My hair dryer reply appears a little skimpy having read all the above. The question was draining the sump.

Clearly if we are draining then refilling and running then that's a different proposition.

To add to the posts above when you come to run with whatever oily stuff you put in it may be worth removing the plugs and spinning the engine to get the oil pumped around the engine with no load on the mains/big-end.
As JohnD states cheap oil to start with then reload with good stuff and a new filter. You could simple run the enigne in the drive  for an hour or so. This will put minimal load on the bearing.

Roger

[JohnD]

There ws another thread ages ago about loosening a seized sump plug.    One recommendation was to use a flame gun (candle or oxyacetylene - take your pick) to heat the thing and help it loosen, but all sorts of fears about explosions and damage.  In fact, of course, like a kettle, it can only heat up to the boiling point of what's in it.  Engine oil boils at about 300+C.     It will catch fire at about that tmeperature, but would need a open flame to do so, which as it's confined insdie the crank case/sump won't happen.    So heating the sump, vigourously with a flame, is an option to get the stuff to flow out!
Hair dryer???? Mmmmmmmm!    Paint stripper heat gun, perhaps!
john

[Sheepy]

JohnD wrote:

I don't want a fight, Ted!  But oil is oil!
John

sorry John I don't want to join the fight, but ted is correct! Diesel oil is "oil mineral detergent" so as it lubricates it cleans.

I use it in all of my vehicles, diesel or petrol! sponsored by my work!  ;) ;)

[TedTaylor]

The point about using a good quality oil is that it has greater boundary lubrication and pressure loading resistant properties.  

When an engine has not had oil circulating for a long time it will have drained down well.  Although you should remove the plugs and spin the engine over until pressure is up, for the comparatively small extra cost of a quality oil even if it is only going to be used for a short time you are giving the bearing and friction surfaces a little bit of extra protection while everything gets really well circulated.  This is in addition to the better 'cleaning' as Shaun says.

I personally would prefer to spend extra per refill to give the engine a good re-start in life and not take a potentially expensive risk.

[GT6 M]

Rodger says,  
My hair dryer reply appears a little skimpy having read all the above. The question was draining the sump.

Clearly if we are draining then refilling and running then that's a different proposition.

Yes I saw that,  BUTT, ye will be starting it some time.
And its the oil thats sat in the bits of the engine, where it cant all drain back int,t sump
im trying to get too.
even a film of stuff thats on the engine walls,or parts.

believe me, there will be a load of old oil turned to a thick gunge, just waiting
to be warmed up,an shifted into oil filter.

M

[Alex]

I've recently stripped an engine for rebuild that's been sat over 20years.
Firstly I drained the oil,then removed the sump.
It had probably 2 inches of oil in the bottom of the pan still.
It was so thick it was sat as it was even with an imprint of the oil. Pump.

If your draining the oil to rebuild then drain what comes out and remove the sump to clean everything.
If your intending to just change the oil and fire it up...... :-/

[nang]

I  know it's a bit of a pain but I'd take the sump off anyway. I remember way back with my old cars, when removing the sump and having to scrape at least 1/2'' of almost solid muck out. You don't want to go heating this stuff and risk getting it through the oilways. :o
Tony.

[GT6 M]

Yip, thats the Stuff Im on aboot,
the stuff is on / in every thing,
there will be a load int cam followers,top end.
Its this thats softens up an comes to clogg yer filters up

M

[Hughbert]

When I first got my car which had stood 8 years or so I poured red diesel into the engine oil filler then each day turned it over by hand for 10 mins I did this for two weeks then I drained the oil/diesel out. I then refilled it again with diesel and did one more week of turning over by hand then drained it again I then removed the sump and the old oil filter then let the engine stand a week or so to drain out . Put a new oil filter on filled it with engine oil and ran it when I took the top engine cover off the rockers etc were spotless clean and shiny .

As the car had only covered 64750 miles from new and was in great condition with good oil pressure I decided not to rebuild  it just restore the repainted it and used it for 2 years no problems in fact when Royboy and I removed it to rebuild to a TR6 2500 with a fast road cam the internals of the engine were shiny and clean no coke of gunk just lovely and clean.  :)

[ferny]

*tentatively raises hand*

In one engine I ran a mixture of 1lt of diesel oil, a can of STP and the rest 20/50. I haven't got a clue what weight or brand of diesel oil it was as it was one I found laying around - I think it was 10/40 elf. I hasten to add that it was in an engine already on its last legs but it did give me the best and most stable oil pressure I'd seen in that particular engine and lasted a few thousand miles as a result! ;D

[JohnD]

OooooooooooopS!
When I posted before, did I confuse "Diesel oil", intended to go in a diesel engine's sump,
with "Diesel oil" intended to go in its fuel tank?
The first has to be acceptable, fine even, when the second would be, as I said, lunacy.

Sorry if I took the oily end of the stick!

John

[Hughbert]

I guess you did get you oil mixed up JohnD and I am sure you meant to say putting Diesel Fuel oil in your engine and running it would be lunacy whereas filling your engine which has stood for 15 years with the same Diesel Fuel oil and turning it over by hand for a week or so then draining it out. Then removing the sump and using clean diesel fuel oil to flush the engine once again allowing it to drain out for some time than refilling with engine oil is not lunacy but a sensible way to clean all the crap out of the engine.

[partsaver]

That's why the diesel fuel that goes in the tank used to be called DERV fuel (Diesel Engine Road Vehicle) so it wouldn't be confused with other diesels or oils.