PeteStupps Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 I bought one from Canleys last year and it was indeed made by Bastuck. No issue with quality, 6000 miles covered so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted September 30, 2022 Author Share Posted September 30, 2022 8 hours ago, PeteStupps said: I bought one from Canleys last year and it was indeed made by Bastuck. No issue with quality, 6000 miles covered so far. On 29/09/2022 at 12:24, glang said: Bastuck in Germany seem to be the only place sourcing new gearbox components (not input shafts though) so I think anybody offering mainshafts will get them from there. However have heard of one serious quality issue and very poor reponse from the company... Thank you both - good to know. Hopefully I can repair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted September 30, 2022 Author Share Posted September 30, 2022 Gearbox assessment done; most things look good and all of the end play values are within tolerance. Layshaft and lay gear cluster inner races are both good. The only issues are the mainshaft tip (hopefully a passible solution found - if not new shaft from Canleys) and the reverse idler gear has damage to 3 of the teeth - image below - the straight cut teeth on the synchro hub and on the layshaft are thankfully all good. Which leads me to three questions: Plan is to replace the idler to prevent possible damage to the more expensive / unavailable parts that it meshes with - Paddocks have it in stock - are there any known issues with these parts? Main bearings are SKF units which seem to be unavailable, are the replacements from Paddocks or anywhere any good or am I better off reinstalling the ones I have taken out. They seem smooth enough under the kinds of pressure I can apply by hand but I know this doesn't always show up a bad bearing! Is it worth replacing the needle rollers in the layshaft even though everything looks good? With those sorted and some gaskets and gearlever balls/ washers I should be good to go! Thank you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 When I needed to fix a mainshaft a few years ago I followed an article in the Courier magazine for grinding out input shaft, grinding a few thou off main shaft tip and fitting a caged bearing with inner and outer races. The place that did the machining work for me did struggle on the work on the input shaft. Wondered if they didn’t have correct tool. They also drilled the oil hole through having fitted outer race (possibly with loctite) Anyway, Worked a treat. If you want a better reverse idler gear, may have one in box I stripped last week looking for a main shaft for Mike Charlton. Mainshaft showed early signs of wear. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 17 hours ago, Banksy82 said: Gearbox assessment done; most things look good and all of the end play values are within tolerance. Layshaft and lay gear cluster inner races are both good. The only issues are the mainshaft tip (hopefully a passible solution found - if not new shaft from Canleys) and the reverse idler gear has damage to 3 of the teeth - image below - the straight cut teeth on the synchro hub and on the layshaft are thankfully all good. Which leads me to three questions: Plan is to replace the idler to prevent possible damage to the more expensive / unavailable parts that it meshes with - Paddocks have it in stock - are there any known issues with these parts? Main bearings are SKF units which seem to be unavailable, are the replacements from Paddocks or anywhere any good or am I better off reinstalling the ones I have taken out. They seem smooth enough under the kinds of pressure I can apply by hand but I know this doesn't always show up a bad bearing! Is it worth replacing the needle rollers in the layshaft even though everything looks good? Youre sure the inside of the input shaft is good as that tip looks pretty worn? Dont think the idler is likely to damage anything else and will probably still do its job but yes replace if you can get one (believe they come with different numbers of teeth). It is a good advert though for stopping the car completely and taking your time going into reverse! The needles lose diameter so worth miking them to compare with new which I believe are 3/32" (not sure of tolerance though)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Share Posted October 1, 2022 56 minutes ago, thescrapman said: I followed an article in the Courier magazine for grinding out input shaft, grinding a few thou off main shaft tip and fitting a caged bearing with inner and outer races. The place that did the machining work for me did struggle on the work on the input shaft. Wondered if they didn’t have correct tool. They also drilled the oil hole through having fitted outer race (possibly with loctite) Anyway, Worked a treat. This sounds like the best repair to me as it replaces both bearing surfaces with new hardened races to correct tolerance. I don't suppose you remember the issue number off hand do you? I'm also considering a similar repair but maintaining the original input shaft bearing surface. I am very much trying to complete this on a budget and I can probably complete my fix with the machinery that I have whereas boring out the input shaft is beyond my capabilities and I would have to factor in machining costs. I have some bearings and races on order and I will be mocking up some options to decide viability! 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: If you want a better reverse idler gear, may have one in box I stripped last week looking for a main shaft for Mike Charlton. PM sent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Share Posted October 1, 2022 57 minutes ago, glang said: Youre sure the inside of the input shaft is good as that tip looks pretty worn? I'm sure there is wear but the surface is smooth and unmarked so for now I'm going to settle for it. I will mock up some options with a dummy shaft to test possible repairs! 59 minutes ago, glang said: It is a good advert though for stopping the car completely and taking your time going into reverse! How true this is! 59 minutes ago, glang said: The needles lose diameter so worth miking them to compare with new which I believe are 3/32" (not sure of tolerance though)... Good idea. Wish I had done that before putting them all back!😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 21 teeth, pictures sent via pm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 01/10/2022 at 13:19, Banksy82 said: Good idea. Wish I had done that before putting them all back!😁 How much play can you feel between laygear and shaft? For the tip it looks like you can reduce it to 12mm to install a 15mm sleeve and then use a 15/19mm cage needle roller. Both these components are available in different lengths so you can fit the longest possible to spread the load. That really only leaves two areas of concern: strength of the smaller tip and the play of a 19mm bearing running in a 3/4"+ hole.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 hours ago, glang said: How much play can you feel between laygear and shaft? Very little to none, I will mic them up anyway but I'm calling the laygear good! 5 hours ago, glang said: For the tip it looks like you can reduce it to 12mm to install a 15mm sleeve and then use a 15/19mm cage needle roller. Both these components are available in different lengths so you can fit the longest possible to spread the load. That really only leaves two areas of concern: strength of the smaller tip and the play of a 19mm bearing running in a 3/4"+ hole.... This is exactly the plan, received some bearings and sleeves yesterday and turned up a dummy shaft. With the 19mm bearing and hardened sleeve the 'wobble' of the input shaft on the top is less than with the original bearing (all rollers still at dimension) on the worn shaft so the play will be better than before. It just comes down to how much weakness removing 0.7mm from the shaft diameter will cause, I will make sure there is a decent radius at the end of the tip and given the type of driving I am going to I'm happy to risk it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Great, let us know what exactly you do and the lengths of the bearing and sleeve used as this could be a very useful mod to know about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 15 hours ago, glang said: Great, let us know what exactly you do and the lengths of the bearing and sleeve used as this could be a very useful mod to know about... Will do. I'll wait until it is back together and there are a few miles on the car before posting it here but I'll keep a record of part numbers and photos should it be successful! Karl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 Getting on with building up the engine and all was going well until I got to the oil pump - photos below. End float and outer rotor to body clearances all good but inner to outer rotor clearances are at 13 to 14 thou, book max is .010. I do have a second early iron body pump from a Herald 1300 which is well within all specifications (only 4 thou on the rotor to rotor clearance) but a couple of points are niggling me. The rotor length is shorter than the later aluminium bodied one. There is no strainer on the pickup. (I have seen sumps with a hole/filter combo built in but I don't have one of those. I am wondering what the best course of action here should be? I have read that some of the new pumps don't meet specification right out of the box so I am uninclined to spend £60+ on an aftermarket pump. I'm between fitting the Herald pump and risking the alloy repair kit here: https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/oil-pump-repair-kit-alloy-body-pumps-3 As a reminder I am building up the 'best I can with what I have' to get the car back on the road so that I can enjoy it while I complete a full rebuild on a second block to a roughly MK3 standard spec so this is not a 'forever' solution - I understand the 1500 angled pumps to be preferable so I will probably look out for a good used one of these for the 'new' engine. Does anyone have any thoughts? Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingFrog Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) I would prefer to use the later alloy bodied one, the smaller oil pump is from an earlier small-crank engine. I would go for the repair kit in this case, the chance of finding a NOS oil pump these days is low and you just have to keep fingers crossed on the quality. You may need to lap in the pickup end of the oil pump to reduce the end float if its worn. By the way, I believe that the later angled pickup is inferior. All cars can stop much faster than they accelerate, the angled pickup sits at the back, which can lead to oil starvation under hard braking when the oil is thrown forwards. Edited October 14, 2022 by JumpingFrog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 @JumpingFrogThanks for this, what you say regarding the straight pickup makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 I believe there are specialists who sell blue printed pumps which are guaranteed to be within tolerance. Of course theyre not cheap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 hours ago, glang said: I believe there are specialists who sell blue printed pumps which are guaranteed to be within tolerance. Of course theyre not cheap.... Nothing good and ever is! Good to know for the future but probably not for this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Whats the decision then? I would probably stick with the alloy pump - its uprated and as its not a high pressure system that bigger clearance isnt going to lose much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 9 minutes ago, glang said: Whats the decision then? I would probably stick with the alloy pump - its uprated and as its not a high pressure system that bigger clearance isnt going to lose much.... I think I'm going to try the repair kit from Paddocks for £25. They are reasonably local to me so if it turns out they are out of tolerance off the shelf I can probably return them - I'll pack a set of feeler gauges in the car and see how we get on! With the smaller one fully in spec I was honestly hoping for a slew of people saying that it was perfectly adequate and to just bolt it on and stop worrying about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 A common theme running through a lot of threads appears to be that old tried and tested parts are better and more durable than their new, modern replacements, so if the old parts are available use them? When I restored my Herald I used a brand new MkIV DG series short block, there were no peripheral fittings on it. like you (and a lot of others), I was on a budget to do the job. To complete the engine I used all second hand parts. The tacho distributor came from a Spitfire, the rest, like the sump, cast iron oil pump, head, tappets (and push rods), fuel pump, etc. ALL came from 13/60 Heralds. The car has run faultlessly for 50k plus. The oil pressure has been constant at between 20 to 70 psi depending on engine revs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Ironically if the crank was reground with new bearings etc the old pump, in spec, would be good enough but with more wear the extra capacity of the uprated pump is nice to have and I think the engine will last longer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 5 hours ago, standardthread said: A common theme running through a lot of threads appears to be that old tried and tested parts are better and more durable than their new, modern replacements, so if the old parts are available use them? I'm hearing this everywhere and it is borne out in the quality of some of the new parts I have bought in the past. As long as I can get this one together well enough to last a few thousand miles I should have all the time in the world to try and source original parts for my 'proper' rebuild. 5 hours ago, standardthread said: The car has run faultlessly for 50k plus. The oil pressure has been constant at between 20 to 70 psi depending on engine revs etc. This is very reassuring - I think an oil pressure gauge is something I need to add in the near future just for my piece of mind (the standard switch for the idiot light is set at approx 5psi as I recall) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy82 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 2 hours ago, glang said: Ironically if the crank was reground with new bearings etc the old pump, in spec, would be good enough but with more wear the extra capacity of the uprated pump is nice to have and I think the engine will last longer.... I think I would definitely like the larger pump on the 'proper' rebuild. I'll mull it over while I get on with the cam timing and valve clearances and then either risk the old one given the bearing clearances are pretty good or take a punt on the repair kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standardthread Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Banksy82 said: This is very reassuring - I think an oil pressure gauge is something I need to add in the near future just for my piece of mind (the standard switch for the idiot light is set at approx 5psi as I recall) Know what your engine is doing (or not). An oil pressure gauge has been my top priority for decades whenever I have bought another car. As you say, a light tells you nothing, and can kill, as a colleague I knew years ago told me his brother-in-law had died because the engine had seized, little or no oil pressure) in the early 60's but he had a light, but didn't! The psi on the light is variable, depends where the switch was made, and who bought the badge to market it under. Edited October 15, 2022 by standardthread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingFrog Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Banksy82 said: With the smaller one fully in spec I was honestly hoping for a slew of people saying that it was perfectly adequate and to just bolt it on and stop worrying about it! Just to point out, unless I misunderstood, you're refreshing a Mk. IV 1300 Spitfire engine. You definitely need the "uprated pump" . The whole reason for its existence was to increase the flow/volume (not pressure) to supply sufficient oil for the larger journals of the later "big crank" engines. The later oil pump is really only an upgrade if you fit it to an earlier engine, in your case it's just the correct oil pump for the engine. I think the repair kit will do you fine as long as you check the rotor clearances and end float, you already said your outer rotor/body clearance was in-spec. This seems like a pretty good guide for blue-printing the pump if you decide to go so far: http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/OilPump.htm Edited October 15, 2022 by JumpingFrog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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