Testing water temperature

[Saltddirk]

Well the Spit (Mk2 Restoration tread) will not be ready for the next event, possibly for the next 10CR  :'( :'(
But now just testing what if.... using the renown?
It is a comfy car, demanding quite a bit of concentration not to wander too much of a straight line, got a 2 L engine with all of 68 Horses on tap.....
It can carry 3, so easier on our old bones
Downside: is it uses a lot of fuel (eek)mpg and is rather slow, 60+ MPH, safe-ish.

What would the chances be of completing?
Reading all the stories of screaming down the moors at full blast on a moonlight night are mouthwatering but what if that full blast is a bit slower, what is the average speed?
How far are the checkpoints in between and how long is a stop? Quick shake, cuppa and off again or a bit more substantial?

Preparation is all, the engine will be fresh, as is the gearbox and I'm sure all will be given an expert once over by my tamed Mechanic so any reason not to?
We have never taken the Renown to any lengthy trip yet (failed last year on the way over to the lakes) but have toured the last few years in the roadster without major issues, and they are mechanically the same cars.

Downright daft, crazy, daydreaming, utterly optimistic or masochistic, perhaps a bit of all or..... Feasible??

Opinions before I sell the idea to her indoors?

Dirk

[Tim Bancroft]

Dirk,

Umm.

Can the Renown cruise at 60mph for a weekend. If yes, then def feasible. If not I am not so sure. The oldest car to have taken part is the TR Reg's TR2 773 EWO, which I think is the 2nd oldest TR. That car breezed the event, but it has overdrive etc.

I am not sure that the Renown could keep up with the pace of the event, I would hate you to to have a terrible experience or feel on edge throughout the weekend, worrying about making the Controls. I don't think we could offer a shorter mileage to you as I do not think you would want to be a individual case.

Its a difficult one. We would love to see an early Triumph take part, but proper thought must be given to the subject.

The RBRR organising team is meeting this Sat., we will discuss this topic and get back to you.

Tim

[Nick Jones]

Got to be faster than an Atlas (AtLast)  :P

Build the engine to TR2 spec.  It'll be faster and probably more economical too.

Nick

[ferny]

Go for it! You'll have no time to stop and talk at the control stops but to be honest that's how it should be. I wasn't aware of this until my second run... So you'll be jumping out to get your booked signed and then straight away heading off out of the control (except for the couple with mandatory stopping times). If you think the car and crew can survive 48(ish) hours of constantly being on the go then you'll be fine.

[Saltddirk]

Tim,

The Renown can cope with modern traffic all right, just takes a bit longer to get there :P but still, top speed was 75 MPH in 1950.
I have no problems in being last, somebody has to!
You are right that if we are to participate in the Renown it will have to be the same route and mileage as the others, else it would not be a challenge or even the same (morally speaking), A bitlike me boasting that I have driven on the Spa- Francochamps circuit and forgetting to mention that it was out the event, when the roads are just local roads, open to everyday traffic.

and you are right, it has to be thought through, and it would have to be in a standard-ish car, no V8 modifications with go-faster stripes.

As for now it is just toying with the idea, so I wont feel rejected if the comity thinks it is daft, not sure if we ever will make it even if you OK it.

Dirk

[Tim Bancroft]

Dirk,

Its not for me to ok it., if you are a member of CT then you can take part in the RBRR. By discussing with the organising team who are very experienced in the ways of the RBRR, we would be able to help to make the event more feasible for you. No way would we modify the event to suit a Renown, but maybe come up with some common sense suggestions to help.

I am just worried that it might be a bit much for the car and that you would'nt have a great time. Its important that all that take part have a good time on the RBRR. The cost of taking part is a fair bit, therefore important that all enjoy themselves.

Tim

[npanne]

Having never taken part in any events, I have absolutlely no experience at all - so take anything I say with a pinch of salt - however one consideration might be the lack of parts compatibility with other teams, meaning you would need to carry everything you need yourself, and if something breaks that you don't have in the car, there won't be another team who can lend you a replacement.

[JohnD]

Dirk,
Having done the 10CR in the days when it really was non-stop, I would have no shame at all about taking a short cut if necessary.  We (Binman & I) did, after deciding that this non-stop lark was just dangerous, and taking a night off in a camp site (that's another story) We had no doubt that we had 'completed' the 10CR.

So, go for it, and be reday to cut a bit off if necessary.
John

[Saltddirk]

Tim
I'm sure the Spit would be more fun to drive on the RBRR, the Renown is a whole different experience, but as to be stressed and not enjoying, not likely. It is quite a tall order for the old lady, and she might come back on the back of a recovery truck, but then so might the Spit.
It would be easier if I had driven it before then one can extrapolate, or look for a new challenge  ;D

As to carrying spares in case of a break down, mechanically they are basically the same as Vanguards- and with a pinch TR2-3, so not that odd. If I can not carry the spares to repair then chances are that it is major anyway and not repairable at the roadside.
And the best mechanic in the world will be co driver  ;) (no harm in brushing his ego a bit, he still has to agree to come  ;D ;D)

Have just been reading the blog and entry list, 110+ already, so the point is more or less moot, or more than 10% should drop out...

Dirk

[Tim Bancroft]

Dirk,

Remember that everyone that has ever wished to do the RBRR has done so. So I would not think that there is no chance this time.

Will contact you after this Saturdays meeting.

Tim

[Jim S]

Hi Dirk,

I'd say you're the one best placed to know what your car can and can't do. My view on using a car is -  If it's been used regularly and has had little or no breakdowns between services, which I guess would be a maximum of 3000 miles, then why should it suddenly become unreliable? provided the mechanics, including suspension, steering and body stress areas have been thoroughly inspected beforehand then covering 2000 odd miles should be no different than the previous X thousand miles. OK it will be in constant use so oil pressure and temperature gauges (preferably mechanical) would be a must as over heating and the breakdown of the oil is the engine killer. When was the last time the gearbox and rear axle oil were checked/changed? Most important are the tyres, again this a personal thing but I wouldn't use tyres that were more than 5 years old, had at least 2/3 tread and were holding correct pressure for weeks. Finally how often have you driven it at 60mph for sustained periods of say 2hours or more? If you have, how did you and the car feel? What I mean is, was it relaxing or was it a 'white knuckle' thing? Did the car feel like it was cruising or was it screaming its head off and vibrating? Sorry if I'm stating the (b) obvious but I thought better that than not offer any suggestions please also bear in mind that I'm no expert I'm just giving my experiences on the driving I've done in the past, albeit the oldest car I've driven any distance was a 1972 Stag (Le Mans 1999). personally I'd love to see a Renown on the trip and if I see you I'll give you a wave and if you're stuck I'll definitely stop and help. Good luck with what ever you decide.

Jim

[Saltddirk]

hello Jim,

The car is in pieces at the moment getting an engine and gearbox transplant, so will do the other maintenance as a matter of routine. The tires are brand new, I have the same as you and will not run on old tires or ditch seekers, and sorry for those that swear by them, not use shady cheap brands (I understand why people fit them, but that is an other discussion, TEHO) after all it is the only thing between you, the 1.5 ton of metal and the blacktop.
Na, driving the Renown is never a white knuckle thing, even at higher speeds, she is more refined than that, Sir Black had big plans for the car, pity nobody else would see it his way. :D
I have not driven the car very much yet (too much toys to play with) but have done the occasional trip to the ardennes, she sits well in modern traffic, goes about the same speed as a HGV, could do with a bit more uuumph to over take, but once you have it in your mind that the road in front is actually just the same as the one you are driving on now with more trucks to overtake, then that stress is gone too!
With the roadster high way driving is no fun, the noise filtering through the hood taking care of that, but in the Renown you are more sheltered. We have driven the Roadster on lengthy trips, yearly pilgrimage to the club rally, to Switzerland, Germany Holland... and that is mechanically the same car so can not see why the Renown could not do the same.

The biggest unknown is I guess the condition of stress bearing components, driveshafts, Bearings, suspension parts.... they are  64 years old now so who knows not about to let go? But then, the RBRR is on good surfaced roads, not some Peking to Paris expedition, so what is the difference between driving them in Belgium or Scotland?  

And breaking down, coming last, or having to abandon are all part and parcel of participating in a run, and possibly also a bit of the fun too, so if you dont try you will never find out.

Dirk

[Jason]

Dirk,
I'd be happy to received an entry from you in the Renown, I think it would be an interesting attempt. We do have space for you :-)
There are a lot of things to take into consideration, not least of which is that running in a Renown would mean no fannying about anywhere in order to stay on time and in the running. Now for a first attempt that is a big ask - it means no socialising at the controls and probably very little time at the breakfast stops. By the first control you are probably going to be at the back of the field no matter where you start (we would try and start you first) and you'll probably stay at the back - that is not an issue but it does mean that you will be running on your own. If you have a problem the chances of any of the field actually knowing you have a problem is slim, the chances of anyone lending a hand is therefore vastly reduced, probably nil. All that means is that you have to be self sufficient in spares, know how and manpower.
When Dave and I attempted the run in the Atlas van we were limited to an absolute max of 55 mph and that was down hill with a following wind - that means you have nothing in reserve to make up for lost time. The van was cold and noisy, it leaked like a seize and it wasn't easy to get any sleep in - it rained pretty much all the time that year. The seats were not that uncomfortable given they had no support but it was a hair shirt we both loved - it was so bad it was good. Dave's an old hand at the RBRR and I've done a few - this was a serious undertaking albeit done with a smile. We ended up on a flat bed and failed at 1600 miles - there is still unfinished business there and yes I would do it again but that's another story.
Anyway, I digress, in your car you will have it running for pretty much 48 hours solid, no chance to stop and cool down for any of the major components, you might even have lights and wipers on for 48 hours solid. This is hard to replicate but you know your car and whether that is an issue - stuff that's 'reliable' during everyday use of 1 or 2 hour trips might not be so great when asked to function for 12, 24 or even 48 hours non-stop. Headlights and tail lights need to be up to the job - driving in Scotland with no street lights, in the rain on fast roads - you need some good lights to see and be seen.
You're right, it's not a rally, there's no rough roads  - OK the UK roads can be rough in parts but they are all sealed surfaces. It's not a race, arrive first, last or in the middle and provided you have a full set of signatures, you've done it. However, it is relentless.
So, in summary, you and the car are very welcome, just please be sure you know what you're letting yourself and the car in for and as with any of these endurance events, make sure your recovery insurance is up to standard, you have the spares, tools and know how and that you're prepared for the bug to bite and for you to want to keep doing this every two years :-)
If you want to have a chat on the phone with Tim or me then just send a private message and we'll ourselves available.

[Wilfrid]

Dirk
I have been following all the chat about a Renown entry with great interest and would endorse everything that Jason has put forward except perhaps that he might just be a tad too discouraging.
I did the event 14 times before anno domini and other problems intervened and I was on the organising team from 1966 to 2004. I have used various Triumphs including a 1300fwd which was chronically overheating and had a bust starter motor but still got round and it was then that I got the incurable bug for this event. 948 Heralds have got round and so should a Renown provided that it is used to long running. Where I disagree with Jason is when he suggests you will always be last because there are always drivers that hang about at stops and have sleep intervals irrespective of the car they are using - if it is a big one they will be confident of being abl;e to catch up. Go for it! If you fail the first time you will know what you are up against and will be well prepared for the next one.

Derek Pollock
Club President

[Saltddirk]

Well I think that is a Yes then.(ok)

-- Does his finest imitation of an Indian war dance round the table  :) :)

iustum abigo

Look at it from the bright side, we can always carry a few extra spares to help these that have taken off and broke down before us  ;D
And being last to come in has the advantage that everybody must not overtake us every single stretch over and over again

Now just convince the Co-driver (crucial!!! as he is Mechanic by trade) and Memsabib that this is a good idea.

oh and finish off the heart transplant of the Blue lady, plus a few other tweaks might be needed.

I'll get the subscription form in after the weekend, I am still marooned here on the rig in Egypt

Dirk

[Sheepy]

What have you done! Aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Best get my pen and paper out to make a huge list of "to do" things.

[Sheepy]

What have you done! Aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Best get my pen and paper out to make a huge list of "to do" things.

[Tim Bancroft]

Dirk,

Good stuff, looking forward to seeing you in early October!!!

Inspirational stuff!

[Toledo Man]

Isn't the RBRR do-able with a 948cc Herald? If so than a Renown should be able to complete the run. Dirk, you should give the car a good shakedown (using it daily for at least a week) before the run. I wouldn't recommend finishing the restoration the night before the run is due to take place like some previous entrants have done in the past (I won't mention any names).

Or you could just enter an Acclaim and save youself all the grief ;D

[Saltddirk]

Agree on all points!  ;D
Except for the acclaim, too modern to my taste.
I have to admit though that a few weeks ago a Standard vanguard estate came up for sale and we considered this as the ideal vehicle, until Shaun noticed that it was a diesel, so even slower than the renown.  :)

[Jason]

Excellent discussion here, makes me feel it's a good example of what the Forum is for and a great bonus to have teased Derek out :-)

Thinking about what Derek said, I have to correct myself. When in the Atlas we were often NOT the last in at the check points, in fact at one point I was accused of cutting the route disproved by the full set of signatures we had at that point. I was even seriously questioned as to whether there were two Atlas vans involved in some grand deception!! That said, we were pretty low down the order at the first stop at Blythe.

I certainly would never want to put anyone off the RBRR, just make sure they get what they want out of it and have some fun along the way - it is after all something we do not because we have to but because we want to.

I'll look out for your form Dirk, it would be good if you could post a few pictures of the car up here - there will be quite a few members who have never seen a Renown and might want to understand what all the chat is about!

[Saltddirk]

Jason,
I'll get you the form.
Attached some pictures of the Renown, She is ex- wedding hire and came with complimentary fake flowers on the rear shelve. A few months ago i bought a water pump for the car on ebay, turned out that it was the previous-previous owner of the car, he sold her to the bloke i bought her from when he retired.
The second picture has also our roadster in it, is even more comfortable to drive, and we took her 3 times to the Alps in Switzerland, but for the RBRR i preferred the Renown, she has a back seat to Kip on....
Since we will be closing the run and sweep the road for stragglers it has been known that we will enter under the name of Team Broom and the drive will be the RBBR AKA the round Britain on a Broom run ;)

[ferny]

So which parts are common to the other cars on the run? May be worth starting to make a list as you may even be carrying something someone else needs.

[Saltddirk]

Ferny

I will have to look into this, I had a look at the entrance list and the closed relative would be the TR3A, our engines have common genes but quite a lot had been changed come along the TR3. Liners and pistons are interchangeable, actually mine uses liners from a TR4, but little else. Rockers also but not longer the valves. Still I dont think we willbe changing liners roadside!
Mechanical fuel pump is the same, or at least use similar parts, possible also the generator. mine however use a wide belt (900x20) while the TR3 has already changed over to the narrow belt.
Starter motors are the same upto a certain build number Renown use the early "bomb" nose type
Brakes are hydraulic lockheed, so there might be more common parts here. off hand mine are 10 inch drums, not sure what the TR3 uses still master cylinder would be the same.

[Toledo Man]

Your car doesn't look like it needs restoring. Just put it into daily use for a month and see how it goes. This is the best way of doing a shakedown. Is it possible to fit electronic ignition? This will improve reliability no end but keep the original points and condesner should it completely fail. This has happened to me on my Dolomite and I keep a set of points and a condenser in the glove box just in case it happens again.