Brake performance on Herald 13/60

[Antonnick]

I have renovated the entire brake system on my Herald 13/60.

Rear brakes  and drums completly new.

On the front , have installed new pistons in the calipers, new hoses new brake pads. Brake master cylinder with new seals. Even so, I cannot get the wheels to lock if braking hard so have the feeling that if I did need to stop in an emergency, it would not. I thought perhaps that using new EBC green brake pads would improve matters but not. Perhaps they are not meant for standard calipers? 

Any ideas?

 

[glang]

I wasnt pleased with Greenstuff pads either and can only think that they are meant to be used with modern brake systems. Have a look at the previous thread in this category where there was a very similar problem.

Otherwise Ive seen many recommendations for Mintex 1144 (not their standard material) pads...

[Nick Jones]

I also found Greenstuff pads deeply disappointing.

Mintex 1144 however, completely transformed the car.

Nick

[RobPearce]

My Vitesse had Greenstuff on when I bought it and they were hopeless. Even standard high street motor factor pads improved it significantly.

[ferny]

I'm not a fan of those pads either, but I don't think they're at fault here.

 

How hard is your "hard braking"? If it's anything less than an emergency stop, then they shouldn't lock.

[Nick Jones]

My experience of Greenstuff, beyond the lack of any bite, was the near impossibility of achieving decent retardation, let alone locking the wheels, even with both feet on the pedal, head jammed against the roof, bending the steering wheel....... Just like the greased weetabix motor-factor cheapies they were supposed to improve on.

The M1144 turned them back into actual brakes without any other hardware changes......

Nick

[Benjamin Swatton]

According to Rimmer catalogue there are 2 different bore dia of rear brake cylinders for heralds gwc1202 or gwc1208 - have you correct ones?

[mpbarrett]

M1144 work very well.
You can have good brakes on a 13/60 and you can lock the wheels so its either the pads or something else. 
New fluid makes a big difference, does the hand brake work? If not maybe the adjustment is wrong or the shoes the wrong way round (I am sure everyone has done that at least once).

Is there much movement of the pedal before anything happens? I have heard of problems with the seals on caliper piston?
I think I would start with different pads and then recheck the system.

Mike

[Rosbif]

1 hour ago, mpbarrett said:

I think I would start with different pads and then recheck the system.

Surely the starting point is the system? If hand brake, rear brakes aren't adjusted correctly then changing pads will do nothing for that.

As for new calipers having seals that hold the pistons back too far this has been the subject of discussion. I recently, well not all that recently, replaced my calipers and I do have more pedal movement than before. The brakes do their job. I have it on my list to carry out the above checks as I would prefer less movement, it is movement NOT air, just in case someone was going to suggest it.

[glang]

I think Mike means that as the OP has already renovated the entire system it would be best to change the pads to see if theres any improvement. If not then they can be discounted as being the problem and the system must be checked again....

[mpbarrett]

sorry my reply was  a bit vague...
If the handbrake doesnt work well then there is a problem with the rear brake setup...
The Greenstuff pads aren't great, put in a standard set or M1144 and try again, could be as simple as the wrong pads.
Not sure if there is a lot of pedal movement or a soft pedal but as long as the pedal doesnt hit the floor, you should be able to lock the wheels.
I tested this last weekend when someone pulled out in front of me, a standard 13/60 disk brake (with M1144 pads) can lock the wheels.......

Mike

[Rosbif]

5 minutes ago, mpbarrett said:

tested this last weekend when someone pulled out in front of me, a standard 13/60 disk brake (with M1144 pads) can lock the wheels.......

My method is to try it on a straight stretch of road with no other traffic from  about 40mph. Your 'method' works too 😁

[PeteStupps]

To be honest I thought my 1300fwd brakes wouldn't lock up until a real life emergency stop proved otherwise! Evidently I needed a to use bit more effort when testing...

[Dogsbody47uk]

I have M1144 pads and a brake servo on my 13/60. She stops...even from cold there's a good "bite".