gmm30 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Hello,My Spitfire IV has recently suffered from a lack of available clutch travel - it only disengages when my foot is right on the floor - now the car won't go into reverse with the engine running.Took the boot off the master cylinder to look at the clevis pin, and sure enough, the pedal hole is pretty oval - not good. I've ordered a new clevis pin and bush set from Anglian Triumph to remove a bit of the play, but over the winter I'll have to get the hole welded up and re-driled.Beyond that though, I noticed that with the pedal disengaged, there is over an inch of travel in the master cylinder piston before any resistance is felt - this corresponds to the vast majority of the pedal travel, so even if I fix the pedal and clevis pin etc. there still won't be much travel available.Should the master cylinder be like this, or is there something wrong inside? For the last few hunderd miles, I heard a loud "click" occasionally when putting the clutch down. There's plenty of fluid in the reservoir, but I haven't bled the system recently. Having said that, I don't think even a spongy system should have no resistance at all... Hope that makes sense to someone - any advice gratefully received, as always!Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggrr1 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 It could be as simple as just bleeding the clutch, at any rate it would be the first thing to do just to eliminate it.It may fix the problem :)If not then your looking out for something else, it does not sound like the clutch plate is worn. That usually manifests itself first with the clutch slipping and the bite point being right at the top of the pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealligator Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Pin fell out in the bell housing on the clutch release arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Agree with the post above. I've had the pin drop out before and it lead to exactly the problems you describe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MURPHIT RITESPIF Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Ive had one segment of the Diaphragm spring plate break off (which i found in the bottom of the bellhousing) The travel of the clutch pedal reduced dramatically - but it gave symptoms of clutch slip not drag.Another problem ive had is that the piston in the slave cylinder has stuck in the bore due to corrosion, a light clean with wet'n'dry paper cured that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Thanks very much for those replies folks. Am I right in thinking it's part number ULC2713 that has dropped out? http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/spitfire/images/63a.gifI was hoping to get away without getting the gearbox out, but I'll just have to bite the bullet and see what's wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Yes, thats the one we're talking about! You might not need to take the gearbox out. I don't know what it was like for other people who have had this problem but for me, with no pressure on the clutch pedal, the hole in the clutch fork lined up nicely with the hole in the belhousing and it was just a simple matter of dropping the new pin in. No disassembly required! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky_spit Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Could also try checking the slave cylinder is fully forward in its hole. The cylinder body has a bit machined out to allow the securing pinch-bolt to pass through; this machined recess is longer than the diameter of the bolt and does allow some degree of fore and aft adjustment. Obviously, in your case, this needs to be pushed fully home. However, my bet is on the slave piston sticking halfway up the bore. I've had similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Thanks for all the advice folks - much appreciated. I'll get a new pin ordered, and will investigate the slave cylinder while the spanners are out. Really ought to change the clutch fluid anyway - it hasn't been done in my ownership (the last 5 years!) and for who knows how long before that...(smartyp)Should I order a new set of bushes (129358 ) and/or a "tolerance ring" (129412) while I'm at it? Are these bits replaceable with the car in one piece? I haven't had the gearbox tunnel off in ages, can't remember what it's like in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Canleys recommend replacing the tolerance ring on their website http://www.canleyclassics.com/catalog.asp?category=200208031759193385743157 and I think that's probably a good idea! Might as well get the bushes as well 'cos they're cheap and you'll almost certainly use them in the future even if you don't now.Sounds like replacing the fluid is a good idea and you may as well check out your slave cylinder while you're there. They are rubbish and often stick, especially if the cars been standing a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I don't think you can replace the tolerance ring without taking the gearbox off although if the pin is loose you may have to. Its a good idea to use one of the pins with a head on so it can't fall out even if it becomes loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 I've ordered a pin with a head and a tolerance ring from Canley's. The car has a genuine 40k on the clock so hopefully the bushes aren't too worn... It's been a miserable summer here in N.I. and the car only comes out on nice days, so my money's on the sticking slave cylinder - she hasn't been getting much use. Mental note - even when it's raining, sit in the garage and push the clutch now and again!Hopefully between all the potential problems (pedal bush, pedal/master cylinder clevis, pivot pin and slave cylinder) there will be enough scope to get me some travel back and get out on the road! Typical that this happens in the sunniest week for ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Well, I took the gearbox cover off last night, and noticed something slightly odd - I think Mr. Bodger has been there before me.Am I right in thinking there shouldn't be a bolt through the clutch pivot? Not sure if it's got the tolerance ring or bushes still intact. I'll investigate further when the new bits come. I know the car's on its third clutch from the history so the gearbox has obviously been out before.I've got the pedal disconnected at the minute so will have to see what the movement looks like when it's working. If I get the clutch working by playing with the slave cylinder and bleeding the system, should I leave the bolt where it is or try to replace it?PS - sorry about the dodgy radio wiring - the soldering iron will be coming out before it goes back in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Get it out, see what's been done to it and why, look for any other hidden nasties and then put it all right so you know it's all in good order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Yeah, get it out. If there's a thread running all the way down that it may well have knackered the crinkly tollerance ring and that's no good.When you're taking off the slave cylinder remember to take the 'pinch bolt' out completely. It looks like you should just be able to loosen it to get the slave out but actually a groove in the slave stops this from happening. I've never seen a slave cylinder mount that wasn't cracked as a result of lazy mechanics leaving the bolt in and using a screwdriver to splay the casting out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Cheers, thanks for that. I must look through the history to see if the clutch pivot is mentioned specifically. Virtually everything else is! Canley's are posting the bits today so I'll hopefully get them fitted before the weekend. Should the old tolerance ring if it's there!) just drop out, or will hammering be required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 Just for the benefit of anybody coming to this thread in a search in future...Putting in the Anglian Triumph bush kit has restored my clutch to a reasonable level of functionality. The pedal no longer wobbles in its pivot, and there's no lost travel at the master cylinder connection.I'll still look at the clutch release arm pivot pin and sort the hydraulics before putting the gearbox cover back in, but at least it's driveable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed2000 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Hey i had exactly the same problem with my spit about a week ago... got to the point where i was strugling to put the car in gear and the clutch engadged unless the clutchw as jammed agasint the floor...Took it to the garage and it was very simple wat was wrong with it...Now the pciture above... i beleive (im useless with the mechanic hense why this forum enables me to keep a spitfire) is the bulkhead and one of those bits has all the clutch fluid in it... the problem was the mental housing... (show in black here) was bent and when the clutch was put down there was no resitence.. or nto enough... the garage jsut welded a new plate of metal on there.., and the problem was sorted... Sorry for lack of technical terms but hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveKent Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 looks they your garage did more than weld a plate on; they've moved everything to the other side of the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed2000 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 thats not my spitfire lol just googled spitfire bulkhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotoflex Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Put that bolt back in the clutch master cylinder bracket! Screw all of them back down tight!Plug that connector back up to the brake PDWA!Y'all are like to drive me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 More questions...I really don't want to take the gearbox out, but it's looking like I'm going to have to...When I removed the slave cylinder tonight, there wasn't anything obviously wrong with it - very grimy inside and out, but I don't think it was seized or anything. I gave it a good clean, no scoring or anything inside so just reassembled it with new fluid.When the slave cylinder comes away, the pushrod stays in place, attached to the release arm. There's about half an inch of play in the pushrod/arm before any resistance is felt. Is this normal? There's also slight up/down play in the release arm - presumably the crinkly tolerance ring and/or the bushes are shot (as discussed above)?I'm thinking maybe the clutch plate is sticking on its splines. Or (hoping against hope?) it's just slightly stuck because the pedal mechanism hasn't been pushing it far enough lately and it'll free up after a few miles...Maybe I should stick the slave back on, bleed it and take the car for a brief drive without the gearbox cover to see how it feels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I can confirm that the pushrod stays with the release arm - that's normal! I can't comment on the rest because I haven't seen my clutch in a while and I hope not to for the forseeable future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmm30 Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Right - system bled well enough, got a good pedal feel for 2 or 3 pushes, disengaged well before the floor... Then - nothing! Very floppy pedal and no disengagement. So out came the master cylinder. Looks okay inside apart from a broken return spring. I'd like to get an overhaul kit with new seals and replace the spring (106156) but nobody seems to stock the spring separately any more. Am I going to have to buy a new master cylinder for want of a spring?? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcolumbine Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I read somewhere recently that you can't buy the spring individually any more. I'm sure I've got one that you can have. I'll just go and have a rummage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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