Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 After some advice.During yesterday's CT 12 car rally the steering on the 2.5 started to become strange in its action.This is difficult to describe:The car's steering will not self centre and the steering feels like it is steering over a lump just after straight ahead, when turning both left and right. After going over the lump it goes light and becomes difficult to return to straight ahead.Before this happened, I changed the TCA (New poly bushs) and TCA ball joints, the track rods ball joints are in good condition, the steeering column UJ is fairly new and the rack was replaced at the beginning of the year. The drag struts were taken off and a good pair of 2nd hand items were fitted, these are poly bushed at the angled joint with the chassis. The struts/shockers/springs were fitted 4 years ago.All a bit of a mystery, to me it feels just like the TCA BJs have gone, but the new ones have only done 200 miles? Therefore I wonder if the drag struts are loose in the angled chassis mounts?Would welcome thoughts as the 10CR is upon me and I have to get the car through a MOT in the next week or so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgetone Triumph Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hi Tim, I had similar problem with my mk1 pi and found that the top bush on the strut had become tight and made the steering very strange, i pulled the strut out and had to bash the bush off and fit a new one (both sides) this made a huge improvement.I forgot to ask you yesterday for a valuation...der Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Is it the strut bearings on top of the front springs ?If the grease has gone, and there is wear and corrossion it will cause funny effects.I would disconnect the track rod ends and see if both steering arms (and hence the struts) move freely. It will also reveal if one side is different to the other and hence point you in the correct direction.I know this is a non load test, but it usually shows if you have a problem.If both are free then its probably rack / steering column.mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Mike and Peter,Reckon you two are spot on. I fitted Chris Witor's struts with roller bearings on the top, and yes I did have a problem with some water getting in (Since fitting the louvred bonnet)!I will do as Mike suggests and dis-connect the steering and test. Looks like I will need to re-build the tops of these struts. Anyone know if I can retro fit std bushes? Suppose I could source new bearings.Thanks very much for the advice, I had started to get worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Peter,Valuation: Give me a call and I will arrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Can also be the steering coupling U/J seizing up, especially if you have suffered from water ingress. Check with CW but I believe the roller strut tops are interchangeable with the OE ones. Might need to check if you need the thrust washers on the OE. Don't know if the conversion uses them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thanks, Richard.The UJ looks fine.After doing Mike's test, reckon I will be pulling the struts out tomorrow morning to have a good look!Looks like a classic example of poor maintenance-blast!Too much to do and not enough time, my only defence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 If it is the strut bearings, and its more than surface rust, it could be a bigger problem, as the bearings are precision gapped and have a specific tolerance spacer fitted between the inner races. Not enough preload and you will get a clunk as you go over bumps, too much and you get stiff steering (ask how I know !). If its light rust you may be able to clean it off with wire wool etc and not affect the preload significantly.If you have shorter springs than standard, its possible to remove the top bearing and inspect without strut removal, simply by undoing the castelated nut at the top of the strut.If water did get in, do you have the black grommets that fit the hole where the castelated nut is ?mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Yep, been thinking about this all morning.I imagine as the steering has been affected the bearing will be damaged, not looking to hopeful. Will take apart as suggested.How is the preload set up, torque setting on the big nut?All a bit in the dark about this subject as Chris built the various parts up for me, I have never taken struts apart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The preload is set by the spacer, it sits between the inner bearing races, and stops them being forced too tightly into the outer races, and hence keeps the friction low. The nut is simply done to normal torque settings. Even if overtightened it won't affect the preload (unless you manage to collapse the spacer).This means that even if you get replacement bearings, and fit them, because of bearing tolerances you probably need a new precision spacer gapped to suit the bearings and strut mount that you have. You can make your own (but its a pita without the tools that Chris Wittor must use).Lets hope its surface rust and cleans offmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Umm, Hope so!!!Otherwise it will have to be a temporary fix back to std parts!Mike, thanks very much for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 A little tip that is work knowing, before removing the struts from the car, undo the castelated nut a little, at least so the "nyloc" section is free of the thread - you need a big ring spanner for the castelated nut, and perhaps a little one to keep the stut top from turning. Don't undo it the whole way until the spring compressors are on. While the spring is still compressing the unit it helps prevent the strut turning with the castelated nut. This can be a real pain when off the car.Don't under any circumstances use a mole grip on the centre chrome part unless you are replacing the dampers.Then undo the 3 top nuts that hold the assembly in place, and the 4 bolts into the hub carrier - you should then be able to leave the rest in place, without more potential damage to ball joint boots etc. (the spring may require some compression to take the tension off the hub carrier).Be warned on some Chris Wittor roller bearing mounts the 3 top bolts that go through the wing are not welded to the mount (unlike the oem units) - I usually hold these in place with tape on re-assembley.good luckmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 http://www.youreableshop.co.uk/product/constrictor-jar-opener-small-KC1012.htmlI've got a couple of these in different sizes. They're rather handy to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 mikew wrote: and the 4 bolts into the hub carrier - you should then be able to leave the rest in place....ps Don't lose the 10thou camber adjustment shims hidden behind two of these bolts. :)Ask me how I know :B :B :B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Richard_B wrote:ps Don't lose the 10thou camber adjustment shims hidden behind two of these bolts. :)Ask me how I know :B :B :BI don't recall my car having these shims Richard, do you end up with more negative camber if they are missing?Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hello Tim, I know you say the U.J.'s are "fairly new" but if the steering goes tight then loose and back to tight (if I understand your description?) then that is the classic sign of a tight U.J. I would check that first.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 CRAJ wrote:I don't recall my car having these shims Richard, do you end up with more negative camber if they are missing?Colin.Less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag74 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Amazing, have a similiar problem with my MK1 with PS. The car suddely lost the self centering of the steering and seems tight and imprecise. Interestingly this happened on the way down a big hill with plenty of hairpins and was quite sudden - few options fow what it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I would think that you would end up with less! If you have excess neg on the front, it may be down to weak or excessively lowered springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Richard: Umm, not got any shims? Certainly were'nt any there when I put the new struts in back in 2005.Blimey, have alot of options to look at:1. Top bearing to struts.2. Steering rack3. Steering column UJ.Following DJB's comments I am now wondering if its the UJ. Excessive heat from tubular manifold causing issues? Blimey, in fact crikey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I had the lower U/J seize on my old MkII PI Estate. Always remember how horrible the steering went, no self centring, and stiff at a couple of points of rotation. Driving with no road feedback. ??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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