Front springs Gt6

[Mr Elsie]

How can I confirm what springs I've got on the front? PO did all kinds of things to the car which I'm gradually fixing.  Front suspension has been rebuilt with new bushes, shocks (not expensive ones ) and the springs that were on the car.  Car came with 185's on front which have now been replaced with 165's on standard steels.  Still seems a bit crashy (technical term!) at the front so wondering if I have shorter springs or harder ones fitted than standard.  

[Tim Bancroft]

Take a photo and we will be able to assist.

Think about Moss's 330lb'ers, will tighten up the front's handling.

[Mr Elsie]

Pics of front springs

[Clive]

What is the fitted length? ie  from top to bottom of the spring.
Plus how many coils.
And if shorter than std, when they dar is jacked at the front the spring should be free, not compressed at all. What is this length.

[Mr Elsie]

It measures about 8 inches top to bottom and has 8 coils as per pic. Pics above are taken with the card stood as normal on its wheels.

[DougBGT6]

My manual says working coils 9.5 inches,  free length 12.46 inches Rimmers picture shows 12 loops. Sounds like you've got non standard.

[Mr Elsie]

Hmmmm so the question is do I swap out the springs with standard ones.  Have no particular desire to have anything fancy at the front end but if the front has been lowered (assume this what it does when you decrease the spring side) then am too think that something has been done to the back end. I have just put new gaz shocks on the back which are the type that come off the chassis bracket. What would the lower the back end?  Rear spring?

I've also measured the height of the car and I seem to be at 46 inches opposed to 47 inches as per the book.  

[DougBGT6]

You may have one of these on the back:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID005384

Not too difficult to replace, hopefully.  :-/

[Mr Elsie]

Doesn't appear to be any spacer on the diff. Maybe a knackered spring which is causing it sit low.  Been looking at the various sellers on front springs.  Moss and canleys do lowered 330 lllb versions (at different prices ) and paddocks do standards which seem reasonable.  May opt for some standards on front unless anyone reckons they are not worth it.  As I don't know what's on front don't want spend on 330's if that's what I already have.

[DougBGT6]

The club that must not be named   ??)  has standard springs for £36 and heavy duty for £40.

[Mr Elsie]

Plus a big uplift if you ain't a member.!  

[DougBGT6]

Yeh! I've not renewed with them due to recent events. Is it 5 or 10% extra for non member? I have a catalogue but it's unclear if these prices are each or for a pair. Still cheap if it's a pair. And they're powder coated. I'd go for the standard if it was me.

[JohnD]

"Standard" Vs. "Heavy-duty" springs????

Car coil springs status is expressed as the "Rate" in lbs/inch (or a metric equivalent), which is the force required to compress the spring by one inch.   Standard rate for spitfires 3 and 4, Herald, Vitesse and GT6 are 150, 180, 203, 206, 220 respectively.

The advantage of a stiffer spring is that the suspension moves less, keeping the wheels in better contact with the road for handling.  330lbs/ins as mentioned above for a 'road sports, car, upt o 600lbs/ins for full race.   For the latter, make sure your dental fillings are secure.

A way to check the rate of your springs is to remove one (or both, GOK what the DPO did!), place a plank on top and stand on it.  Easy enough if you are next to a wall to keep your balance!  Have someone measure the height and again without your weight on it.  Divide your weight in pounds by the compression for the rate in lbs/ins.

JOhn

[DougBGT6]

Sorry John, don't quite understand your "????" I'm just quoting from a reputable catalogue. I'm quite sure your figures are correct however I've learnt from bitter experience to keep it standard.

[Tim Bancroft]

I would def stay with 330lbers, the std spring makes a GT6 float around, def used with an eye on the USA market, not good.

I'm a big fan of 440lbers, really tighten up the handling.

When finished playing around with the suspension, get the car four wheel aligned, amazing difference. As a mk1 GT6, take some rear shims with you.

[Mr Elsie]

Hi Tim, mines a mk3. Are the shins for the front suspension to assist with the wheel alignment?

[BrendanD]

Big fan of decent shocks (I have GAZ) and 330lb springs on the GT6.
Transforms the car from a floating barge into something fun to drive but not bone rattling!

[Spitfire2500]

timbancroft61 wrote:

I'm a big fan of 440lbers, really tighten up the handling.

I completely agree - front end much better behaved and they don't affect the ride quality to any great extent. I changed from 330lb fronts to stiffer jobbies lat year -- I should have done it years ago... :B

(PS I have a no-longer-used pair of Moss 330lb springs sitting in the garage which are free to good home...  :))

3815 wrote:

Hi Tim, mines a mk3. Are the shins for the front suspension to assist with the wheel alignment?

The shims Tim are referring to are used on non-rotoflex cars for rear wheel alignment. Part number 133070, see reproduction of parts catalogue on Canley's web site http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/gt6mkiiiroadspringanddamper.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/gt6mkiii.html&category=axlessuspensiondriveshaftsandwheels&xsl=diagram.xsl (Rotoflex cars have an adjustable tie-rod so don't need shims.)

[JohnD]

9077 wrote:

Sorry John, don't quite understand your "????" I'm just quoting from a reputable catalogue. I'm quite sure your figures are correct however I've learnt from bitter experience to keep it standard.

Doug,
I was poining out that spring rate is the correct and best way to desribe spring chacteristics, not merely Standrad and Heavy Duty.  That is the way this discussion has developed and a good thing too!  It is oversimplification even patronising for suppliers to offer mrely those two options without even quoting a rate.   I would not buy a spring from that source.
Please tell us your tale of woe that has led you to stick to OE springss.
John

[mikeyb]

It's a mare to change rear radius arm shims on a Mk1 GT6 - same on all Spits too I would think.

The problem is that you have to unbolt and drop the radius arm to get to the bolts that secure the bracket to the car body. The packing shims sit behind this bracket. I've got it down to a fine art now but am lucky to have a tyre bay locall that are happy for me to bring the car down for a free check then go home swap some shims then come back another day for another check then just pay for one final alignment at the end.

At around £50 a time, you would only need to pay for 2 alignments to make it worthwhile buying adjustable rear radius arms made specifically for a non rotoflex car. I've just gone down that route because I found that I needed two half thickness shims to make my rear alighnment correct!

[DougBGT6]

John,

I’m not anti-up-grading but I suggest get it working standard first before you start beefing it up so you’ve got a bench mark. I have many tales of upgrading disasters but I won’t bore you with them……just yet.

However, my only tale of springs is when I bought my GT6, I didn’t notice the tow bar. The guy had a boat far too heavy for the car and the weight bouncing up and down had broken the rear spring and crushed the front springs by 2 inches. And yes they were standard, and yes, he could have done with up rated springs.

The moral of the story is NEVER BUY A CAR FITTED WITH A TOW BAR!  :-/

[JohnD]

A sad tale of experience, the most expensive form of education!
Agree, up to a point, about getting it running first.
And on today's roads, handling will be perfectly adequate on OE spec. springs.
Except that they may now be worn or damaged, like yours.
Opportunity to upgrade, but decide fisrt what you want.

The late Allan Staniforth had a system to work out what rate your spring should be to optimise handling, involving wheel frequency, sprung weight, suspension leverage etc.   Se nay of his books, eg Race & Rally Car Sourcebook.
John