Fan belt problem

[Brendan The Spit]

Hi,

So, driving back, sudden weird noise, strange smell (recognise it from when my radiator burst on an old Peugeot years ago), temperature shot up but fortunately was under a mile away and was able to get home.

Now what I have is:
* Fan belt has sheared off
* Ignition light won't turn off
* Radiator overflow pipe has come out of overflow
* Engine keeps turning over when I switch it off - have to pull out choke to stop it

So, my question is: do you think this is all symptomatic of the fan belt failing, and if so should a new fan belt fix all of this ie the ignition light and engine turning over, so long as I just put the pipe back into the reservoir?

I have a spare belt that came with the car but it seems far too small to fit. Is this normal ie are new belts very very very very tight fitting? Or should I be looking at something I can easily fit myself?

I *was* planning on a road trip holiday in a week's time and I really could have done without this. Any/all recommendations welcome.

Thanks
Brendan

[Clive]

fanbelt also runs the alternator hence the charge light is on.
fanbelt turns the waterpump. So water hasn't been circulating the engine.It will have got rather hot, and that could have caused the overflow pipe to move about. likewise the head has got very hot, and that is causing the running-on. Hopefully nothing a gentle cool down by leaving alone won't fix.

as to the belt, you need to slacken the adjjsting arm on the alternator (and often the actual pivot bolt that holds the alternator at teh bottom a little)
The fan belt should then fit on, but wont be easy (nor too tight). Once on, adjust to tighten, but allow about an inch of movement on the longest run of the belt. Overtightening is bad, it damages waterpump and alternator bearings.

As to teh correct sized belt, should be able to get one quite easily. Even Halfords stock them (usually) or the supplier of your choice.
10mm wide, 1088mm long. If for some reason you have a vicous water pump fan then you need an 1100 long version I think.

[CHRIS211083]

Check to see if the alternator moves freely. As the power can be fed back from it and run the ignition after turn off.  

Chris.

[Brendan The Spit]

Brilliant, thanks chaps. Amazing how one belt is so important!

It looks quite obvious that the belt I found stowed in the boot is far too small so I've ordered two from eBay (from a seller I've used before), one to fit myself, one for the boot!

Also, referred to my original BL Cars Repair Manual so that shows how to loosen the alternator to get the belt to fit. Fingers crossed we'll be back up and running by Sunday.

[BrendanD]

Do check that the alternator and water pump pulleys move freely and have not seized, as this can be the primary cause of a failed fan belt...

[Brendan The Spit]

OK, just checked - everything spins nicely, alternator and water pump, so I reckon it was just an old, knackered fan belt.

Thanks! :)

[Brendan The Spit]

So, new belt is on, seems to have the right tension - but the car's running very hot now.

Everything's going round ok (fan etc), but I think what's happening is, when the radiator got hot after the belt broke, it spurted out water through the overflow (the pipe had come out and it was dripping water everywhere) so I need to top up the radiator.

So, two questions:
1. Given that I don't have any coolant handy, I should be fine topping it up with water, right? Provided of course I remember to sort it out in winter.
2. I'm assuming that the overflow shouldn't have ANY water in it, cos it's an overflow?

Thanks
Brendan

PS I don't think the radiator is damaged - I've checked and there doesn't seem to be any water dripping anywhere.

[BrendanD]

2875 wrote:

So, two questions:
1. Given that I don't have any coolant handy, I should be fine topping it up with water, right? Provided of course I remember to sort it out in winter.
2. I'm assuming that the overflow shouldn't have ANY water in it, cos it's an overflow?

Thanks
Brendan

PS I don't think the radiator is damaged - I've checked and there doesn't seem to be any water dripping anywhere.

Hi.
1. You are Ok for a few days with water only, but antifreeze is also a rust inhibitor, so get some at the weekend...
2. No, its not just an overflow, but a primitive expansion tank. As the radiator cools the negative pressure opens a valve in the cap and sucks coolant back in. It should be about 1/3 full when cool. Fill the radiator and put some more in the bottle to cover the bottom of the tube.

Having overheated myself when a hose split, I am aware of things that can happen to an overheated engine... :(
- leaking radiator from a split seam
- cap no longer sealing properly
- thermostat not opening fully
- head gasket leaking and head warped slightly.

so i'd keep a close eye on things for a bit....

[Brendan The Spit]

OK, thanks for this. I'll see what I can do about getting antifreeze in both radiator and overflow.

In the meantime I noticed some water around the radiator which surprised me, I thought it would have evaporated by now so I've put some newspaper under it to see if anything drips. I'm going to drive it quite a bit between now and Saturday to test it. I was really hoping it would all be ok for Sunday when I was planning on a trip through Wales so I'm concerned now that I won't have enough time to make sure everything's ok.

Darn it.

[Brendan The Spit]

Me again.

So it looks like I topped up the radiator with about two pints of water. The capacity of the coolant system appears to be around 8 pints so hopefully I haven't diluted it too much, especially if I add some more to the overflow. I'm not prepared to flush out the system until I have plenty of time to do so.

Next question: do I need to be careful with whatever coolant I get, or does any old stuff work?

One more thing: I notice that the water/coolant in the radiator is a bit brown so I guess I need to get that looked at soon.

I'm just going to drive around a lot between now and Sunday then decide what to do.

[WIMPUS]

2875 wrote:

Me again.

So it looks like I topped up the radiator with about two pints of water. The capacity of the coolant system appears to be around 8 pints so hopefully I haven't diluted it too much, especially if I add some more to the overflow. I'm not prepared to flush out the system until I have plenty of time to do so.

Next question: do I need to be careful with whatever coolant I get, or does any old stuff work?

One more thing: I notice that the water/coolant in the radiator is a bit brown so I guess I need to get that looked at soon.

I'm just going to drive around a lot between now and Sunday then decide what to do.

Brown will mean there is a bit of rust on the system (also because of the regular water) , maybe best to put in a bottle of rad flush for now .. Then when you drain it and fill it up with coolant it will be ok and everything cleaned  :)
But i removed the drain plug on the engine, took a wire & got some dirt out , flushed it all good and then put coolant in  :)

My coolant is still nice and blue, not like when i got here it was all dark brown and when i drained it there was a brown mess on the ground :/  :)

[BrendanD]

Hi
2 pints out of 8, not too bad, at least it wasn't bone dry...

Use any BLUE coolant - the pink stuff is for ally heads and does bad things to Triumphs...

Dont worry about the brown coolant, its always a bit brown unless its newly filled.

Drive it around a  bit. check the level again. top it up again. drive it a bit more and if its steady you should be OK.
I'd take a large plastic can of water with you in the boot though.

[Brendan The Spit]

Brilliant, thanks Wimpus and 'other Brendan'! Like I said, this happened about a mile away from home so I must have been driving for only a few minutes. The temp gauge shot up to full but it does look like I was able to stop the car before anything major happened (fingers crossed).

Great advice on taking a load of water with me too. I used to have an old Cavalier that I would regularly fill up with water I carried around, so it'll just be like the good old days...

[nang]

You may well have cooked the thermostat,, they really don't like running hot and dry. Keep an eye on the temp gauge.
Tony.

[cook1e]

As they are not too expensive it's worth replacing both the radiator cap and the thermostat.

As "nang" says you may have damaged the thermostat so worth replacing that, if it's old it could be sticking closed as well which will cause overheating.


Also if it's an old radiator cap the spring can lose their tension and the seals can also start to leak. If this happens then the system will not be able to reach the correct pressure and will boil over at a lower then required temperature.

[Brendan The Spit]

Thanks. I'll be taking it for a spin tonight to see what happens, just around the local area in case of difficulties.

[Brendan The Spit]

Good grief it's two steps forward one step back!

So I rush home and out to the local garage, where they only have one bottle of coolant left. I can't see the colour, I ask the youth behind the counter if it's the pink or blue sort, he looks at me like I just landed on planet earth, I buy it anyway.

I open it, and find that it's not pink, and it's not blue either... it's green!

It's Mobil ready mixed coolant.

So, can I use this? Or should I go to the proper auto place tomorrow if I can find time?

Post-edit: this seems to say that blue=green - http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Coolant - and I've found another source that says they change the colour every two years? Sounds a bit bizarre. Also, does it matter what sort I already have in the  radiator, so that match like for like? So many questions!

[thehanko]

I've never been able to find any supportive evidence other than rumor that one is or isn't suitable. Just people saying its bad but no details as to why.

Most manufacturers simply provide a 2 yr and a 5 yr version. When I looked into it even the manufacturers of the coolant were saying the best one for classic cars was the 5 yr red. The only differences stated between the two were life span for serviceing.

The whole concept of mixed metals coolant for modern cars being bad for classics strikes me as odd seeing as we have mixed metals anyway.

As long as its rust inhibiting and glycol rated to the temps you need then crack on IMHO.

[junkuser]

If the label says it is propylene glycol it will be safe to use.

The colour is iffy to rely on as some propylene glycol coolants were actually pink I have heard.

[thehanko]

junkuser wrote:

If the label says it is propylene glycol it will be safe to use.

The colour is iffy to rely on as some propylene glycol coolants were actually pink I have heard.

So what is the other active ingredient? What does it cause and how? Not having a go, just interested as my research failed to find anything.

[thehanko]

Ok just found out. Oat or organic acid technology versions can attack silicon and solder such as in classic rads and heater matrix.

Don't think I've ever noticed a non glycol coolant. Will have to keep my eyes out.

http://www.v8register.net/FilesV8WN/Concerns%20with%20antifreeze%20for%20classic%20cars%20090310.pdf

An interesting read.

[nang]

We had this exersize at work a few years ago with our bus fleet. We'd been running green and for some reason only known to top management we had to change to blue. Before we did this we had to put radiator flush through everything. We were told everything would turn to jelly if we didn't.
Tony.

[Brendan The Spit]

OK I just noticed there was a 'label under the label' kind of thing (a 'turn over' icon bottom right I hadn't seen before).

It says Ethylene Glycol. So, not Propylene Glycol.

I actually just added some water to the overflow, simply because I have to test this car before I drive it on Sunday. Everything is checking out fine so it looks like I got away with overheating it.

I'm popping round to JY Classics this afternoon anyway to get the fuel sender unit replaced, so I'll consult John over this - he actually recommended I just put water in for now. I only had to top up with about two pints of water so there is still coolant in there, it's just a bit more diluted than before.

So I'll have a chat with John re coolant, but if I can just drive this thing over the next week and get that holiday I've been planning for months with the current setup, I'll be happy with that, then I'll think about coolant and maybe a complete flush when I'm back.

Just to say thanks for all the help chaps. When things go wrong it's really annoying but you always learn a ton of stuff.

[thehanko]

The top up of water will be fine for a short while with the other coolant.

The ethyl glycol by that artical will be fine for metals but perhaps not for silicon although it says it depends on the individual product. I would contact the supplier help line.

[thehanko]

Bugger the more expensive coolant I splashed out for specifically says using oat technology and doesn't have any of the horrible (read important) nitrates and silicates etc.

Time to buy some more...